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Future Of Master Card and Amex in India

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beastboy

Its Almost 10 Month and there are no sing when Master and Amex will comply to the new guidelines by RBI, and start their services back in India , Diners which is very small compared to Amex and Mastercard resolved the issue within 6 Months and is back is bussiness already.

What could be the stopping factor for Amex and Mastercard.

Please share your thoughts.

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what if they invest in complying and still lose to rupay…..
& other reason is this guy don’t want them here  @abhishek012 joy

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For amex Indian mkt is negligible compared to their US mkt so they won’t be doing anything “too expensive” to comply with new RBI rules. For mastercard, I guess that depends on how much they were actually earning from Indian mkt & whether their company policy allows them to comply with such rules. Diners was able to do it exactly because they are quite small so not much expenses.

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vkrmjeet wrote:

what if they invest in complying and still lose to rupay…..
& other reason is this guy don’t want them here  @abhishek012 joy

Rupay is only going to win because severe misuse of offers on visa/mastercard/amex will eventually result in scrapping of all such offers leaving no difference between them & rupay cards with occasional good offers while rupay cards always being cheaper due to their local nature.

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guest_999 wrote:

Rupay is only going to win because severe misuse of offers on visa/mastercard/amex will eventually result in scrapping of all such offers leaving no difference between them & rupay cards with occasional good offers while rupay cards always being cheaper due to their local nature.

but other way around more offers on visa/mastercard/amex cause more people using them rather than rupay.
I don’t see them losing unless there are systematic restrictions on MDR charged by them or commission earned by them.
Till you are earning money , have cashflow 70% people having rupay doesn’t matter
30% people having much more transactional volume matters as it is a commision business.

Apart from amex visa/mastercard don’t loose much on even misuse because most of the offers are offered by banks rather than networks.

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guest_999 wrote:

Rupay is only going to win because severe misuse of offers on visa/mastercard/amex will eventually result in scrapping of all such offers leaving no difference between them & rupay cards with occasional good offers while rupay cards always being cheaper due to their local nature.

Banks promote Visa and Master cards as they earn a part of of MDR charges levied by the network

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vkrmjeet wrote:

what if they invest in complying and still lose to rupay…..
& other reason is this guy don’t want them here  @abhishek012 joy

Nothing will happen, RBI will soon allow Amex and mastercard to issue cards in India.

Mastercard again grab all market share within a next 2 to 3 years.

Main competition will start after 6 to 10 years when Reliance, TATA etc will launch card/UPI like payment system in India

and NPCI hive off RuPay card as a for-profit company.

HDFC, ICICI, HSBC, Citi, Axis, SBI, BOB and other PSU banks (almost all India’s largest credit card issuer banks) get dividend from RuPay. Banks will push more RuPay cards to earn more profit.

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abhishek012 wrote:

Nothing will happen, RBI will soon allow Amex and mastercard to issue cards in India.

Mastercard again grab all market share within a next 2 to 3 years.

Main competition will start after 6 to 10 years when Reliance, TATA etc will launch card/UPI like payment system in India

and NPCI hive off RuPay card as a for-profit company.

HDFC, ICICI, HSBC, Citi, Axis, SBI, BOB and other PSU banks (almost all India’s largest credit card issuer banks) get dividend from RuPay. Banks will push more RuPay cards to earn more profit.

Abhishek Bhai suggest NPCI to offer min 10% discount/cashback for wallet loads w/ Rupay credit cards (Just like the 20%cb with Rupay DCs for Apay Wallet load). Everyone will be very happy to convert their VISA/MC cards to Rupay  😄

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vkrmjeet wrote:

but other way around more offers on visa/mastercard/amex cause more people using them rather than rupay.
I don’t see them losing unless there are systematic restrictions on MDR charged by them or commission earned by them.
Till you are earning money , have cashflow 70% people having rupay doesn’t matter
30% people having much more transactional volume matters as it is a commision business.

Apart from amex visa/mastercard don’t loose much on even misuse because most of the offers are offered by banks rather than networks.

Yes almost 99% offers are offered by banks rather than networks.

Bank offers are also working on RuPay cards.

if you found today any offer exclude for RuPay card users because currently RuPay is new and bank systems are not updated + RuPay is non profit org, Currently still in development phases. Most of the time after complaint banks now added RuPay card for bank offers but this will solved in future once RuPay become for profit org and banks start earning from RuPay cards.

Some people think why RuPay credit card is not offer Flat 1.5% or 2% cashback (except co-branded card) because currently RuPay credit card wants bank will earn more profit and not the customers. RuPay also trying to launch co-branded cards. So, customers and banks both will get happy. Co-branded cards easily offer 2% to 5% cashback. Once banks will earn enough profit from RuPay credit card. RuPay will launch more Super premium and Ultra premium credit cards.

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abhishek012 wrote:

Yes almost 99% offers are offered by banks rather than networks.

Bank offers are also working on RuPay cards.

if you found today any offer exclude for RuPay card users because currently RuPay is new and bank systems are not updated + RuPay is non profit org, Currently still in development phases. Most of the time after complaint banks now added RuPay card for bank offers but this is will solved in future once RuPay become for profit org and banks start earning from RuPay cards.

Some people think why RuPay credit card is not offer Flat 1.5% or 2% cashback (except co-branded card) because currently RuPay credit card wants bank will earn more profit and not the customers. RuPay also trying to launch co-branded cards. So, customers and banks both will get happy. Co-branded cards easily offer 2% to 5% cashback. Once banks will earn enough profit from RuPay credit card. RuPay will launch more Super premium and Ultra premium credit cards.

i think they should start charging MDR soon and start sharing commision with banks. 95% of the users don’t care if it is mastercard or visa or rupay and banks mostly issue visa by default.

things will change when they start issuing rupay by default.

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vkrmjeet wrote:

i think they should start charging MDR soon and start sharing commision with banks. 95% of the users don’t care if it is mastercard or visa or rupay and banks mostly issue visa by default.

things will change when they start issuing rupay by default.

Yes, banks and NPCI CEO Dilip asbe said many times, every month we discuss with the Finance Minister to roll back MDR charges on RuPay debit cards and UPI but she doesn’t understand.

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beastboy wrote:

Banks promote Visa and Master cards as they earn a part of of MDR charges levied by the network

What’s the point of earning mdr charges if banks end up giving thousands of cb to a majority of card users every month. Once bank stop giving cb offers on most misused cards then there is practically not much difference between rupay & other credit cards. It doesn’t matter to a typical person anyway whether he use rupay or visa card for 10% offer during sale & rupay cc are usually cheaper.

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vkrmjeet wrote:

but other way around more offers on visa/mastercard/amex cause more people using them rather than rupay.
I don’t see them losing unless there are systematic restrictions on MDR charged by them or commission earned by them.
Till you are earning money , have cashflow 70% people having rupay doesn’t matter
30% people having much more transactional volume matters as it is a commision business.

Apart from amex visa/mastercard don’t loose much on even misuse because most of the offers are offered by banks rather than networks.

There is no point in just earning money if the returns are lower than your typical lead index returns in market. If a credit card company is only achieving ~10% YoY growth then it is growing slower than nifty/sensex at which point why would investors invest in that company. Credit card companies growth depends on a portion of people not so significantly misusing their cards that significantly offsets the revenue earned from rest of the users. SBI card operational expenditure was 4000Cr in 20-21 while their net profit after tax was around 990Cr & most of the sbi card agents sit in sbi bank branches so where do you think this 4000cr operational expenditure is coming from for a company whose employee strength/salaries/physical infra(offices mainly) is nothing to talk about.

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Isn’t recently FM met mastercard people during her US visit? I’m expecting the ban to go away soon, may in a month or two.

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Amex is making major upgrades to their Reward Points system right now. Could be a step towards compliance.

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guest_999 wrote:

What’s the point of earning mdr charges if banks end up giving thousands of cb to a majority of card users every month. Once bank stop giving cb offers on most misused cards then there is practically not much difference between rupay & other credit cards. It doesn’t matter to a typical person anyway whether he use rupay or visa card for 10% offer during sale & rupay cc are usually cheaper.

How RuPay Credit card is cheaper ?

Banks treat all card networks equally. Dnt call RuPay credit card cheap.

Most Credit card users dnt apply for RuPay card because they think RuPay card is cheap.

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guest_999 wrote:

There is no point in just earning money if the returns are lower than your typical lead index returns in market. If a credit card company is only achieving ~10% YoY growth then it is growing slower than nifty/sensex at which point why would investors invest in that company. Credit card companies growth depends on a portion of people not so significantly misusing their cards that significantly offsets the revenue earned from rest of the users. SBI card operational expenditure was 4000Cr in 20-21 while their net profit after tax was around 990Cr & most of the sbi card agents sit in sbi bank branches so where do you think this 4000cr operational expenditure is coming from for a company whose employee strength/salaries/physical infra(offices mainly) is nothing to talk about.

bro very very less large corporations have their net income more than 10% and visa net income is around 50% flushed .
Money is dominance.
SBI is SBI they have double the assets as compared to HDFC still half they post less than half the quarterly numbers.

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abhishek012 wrote:

How RuPay Credit card is cheaper ?

Banks treat all card networks equally. Dnt call RuPay credit card cheap.

Most Credit card users dnt apply for RuPay card because they think RuPay card is cheap.

I meant in terms of cost to bank as no more commission charges to visa/mastercard as well as govt subsidies in some form I assume.

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vkrmjeet wrote:

bro very very less large corporations have their net income more than 10% and visa net income is around 50% flushed .
Money is dominance.
SBI is SBI they have double the assets as compared to HDFC still half they post less than half the quarterly numbers.

SBI Card is a separate company from SBI bank & listed in stock market & because of that SBI card has to release their annual financial statement with all the details incl their operational expenditure. If you take a look at HDFC/ICICI/Axis bank financial statements then you will notice that nowhere they mention this figure for their credit card operation but rather just total revenue from it. I can understand their reason for it also because it wouldn’t look good if it reveals that they are basically cross subsidizing their credit card business from profits earned from their other operations. How much loss do you think it takes for banks like HDFC to force them to cancel reward points/cards/devalue reward points of their top end segment(infinia/dcb) let alone their middle & entry level card segment? I am pretty sure that anything less than a loss/unnecessary spend of few hundred crores won’t even enter the eyes of banks like hdfc/icici/axis when it comes to their entire credit card operation. This is the situation when credit card mkt in India is still so much underdeveloped compared to matured mkts like USA.

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guest_999 wrote:

SBI Card is a separate company from SBI bank & listed in stock market & because of that SBI card has to release their annual financial statement with all the details incl their operational expenditure. If you take a look at HDFC/ICICI/Axis bank financial statements then you will notice that nowhere they mention this figure for their credit card operation but rather just total revenue from it. I can understand their reason for it also because it wouldn’t look good if it reveals that they are basically cross subsidizing their credit card business from profits earned from their other operations. How much loss do you think it takes for banks like HDFC to force them to cancel reward points/cards/devalue reward points of their top end segment(infinia/dcb) let alone their middle & entry level card segment? I am pretty sure that anything less than a loss/unnecessary spend of few hundred crores won’t even enter the eyes of banks like hdfc/icici/axis when it comes to their entire credit card operation. This is the situation when credit card mkt in India is still so much underdeveloped compared to matured mkts like USA.

i am sorry but i really don’t know where are we heading now joy
But if you think 52% US credit card holders defaulting or deffering their credit card payment is development. It is yet to happen in India.
I literally don’t know how we reached here flushed (discussing this from the main topic).

Offers are same or more in US the only difference is more peneteration. The credit card business is literally flawed the people who think they earn by commision from networks don’t know they have to bear the cost of Capital & banks mostly earn by interest when people fail to repay.

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vkrmjeet wrote:

i am sorry but i really don’t know where are we heading now joy
But if you think 52% US credit card holders defaulting or deffering their credit card payment is development. It is yet to happen in India.
I literally don’t know how we reached here flushed (discussing this from the main topic).

Check DM.

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Mastercard won’t be unbanned anytime soon.

Rbi wants data to be stored in India servers.

Mastercard is not agreeing. They feel cybersecirity laws in India aren’t safe enough.

Same is the case with American express.

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i dont know but indian market have become strange and now foreign corp wanna stay foereign while local is overhyped

Ex vodafone :- 2g 3g 4g

Mastercard :- i remmeber i was booking air india ticket and none card was working , mastercard worked why ? Coz they had some gateway in australia while indian gateway of visa rupay had “server issue”
this again repeated in south india while i was paying hotel bill on pos machine , mastercard works where other card gave issue but i am talking this like 10 year back tech have immproved in the course

I have mastercard debit card with lounge access and i like it for offers and mastercard lounges



Yes rupay is local but wait and see when it become for profit org 



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demerius2020 wrote:

i dont know but indian market have become strange and now foreign corp wanna stay foereign while local is overhyped

Ex vodafone :- 2g 3g 4g

Mastercard :- i remmeber i was booking air india ticket and none card was working , mastercard worked why ? Coz they had some gateway in australia while indian gateway of visa rupay had “server issue”
this again repeated in south india while i was paying hotel bill on pos machine , mastercard works where other card gave issue but i am talking this like 10 year back tech have immproved in the course

I have mastercard debit card with lounge access and i like it for offers and mastercard lounges



Yes rupay is local but wait and see when it become for profit org 



lol, all card payment proceed by banks.

Server issue on your bank servers. 😀

In rare cases card server networks goes down.

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abhishek012 wrote:

lol, all card payment proceed by banks.

Server issue on your bank servers. 😀

In rare cases card server networks goes down.

i had also rupay card from the same bank and it did not work , twice

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guest_999 wrote:

There is no point in just earning money if the returns are lower than your typical lead index returns in market. If a credit card company is only achieving ~10% YoY growth then it is growing slower than nifty/sensex at which point why would investors invest in that company. Credit card companies growth depends on a portion of people not so significantly misusing their cards that significantly offsets the revenue earned from rest of the users. SBI card operational expenditure was 4000Cr in 20-21 while their net profit after tax was around 990Cr & most of the sbi card agents sit in sbi bank branches so where do you think this 4000cr operational expenditure is coming from for a company whose employee strength/salaries/physical infra(offices mainly) is nothing to talk about.

SBI cards net profit after tax for 21-22 is 1600 crore. About 60% growth fire✌️

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demerius2020 wrote:

i had also rupay card from the same bank and it did not work , twice

Same time you used ?

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rohan8397 wrote:

SBI cards net profit after tax for 21-22 is 1600 crore. About 60% growth fire✌️

Most likely because of simplyclick reward devaluation & prime card birthday offer closure not to mention no partnership with flipkart/amazon on BBD/GIS sale in 2021.

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guest_999 wrote:

Most likely because of simplyclick reward devaluation & prime card birthday offer closure not to mention no partnership with flipkart/amazon on BBD/GIS sale in 2021.

So SBI cards shares to the moon now smiley

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rohan8397 wrote:

So SBI cards shares to the moon now smiley

Will see but I don’t expect any huge jump. This is the performance that is expected from a good credit card company whose cards are not being misused, for huge jump you typically need performance exceeding expectations. Also shares price take into acc future growth as well & I doubt sbi will be able to maintain the same speed next year now that many of their users won’t be using their cards as much because of the devalued reward program & lack of good offers on their cards.

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