Chargeback/Dispute for Subscription payments [S...

Chargeback/Dispute for Subscription payments [SBI Credit Card]

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Need expert suggestions for someone who has gone through this fiasco.

I need to dispute/file chargeback on my Visa SBI credit card for a subscription I took. Its an advance payment and obviously I don’t intend to use the services, but the merchant isn’t accepting this and is enforcing I go ahead with this, they told me they sent emails (which ended up in spam)

My only concern with SBI is, they are never much in favour of customers, and a quick survey with the customer care on this situation hinted me, they would block the card and mark this transaction as fraud to dispute it, and I still feel they will not close this in my favour coz the merchant might say the customer was aware it was a recurring payment whilst subscribing it in the first place.

I would like to know someone who has come across such a scenario, where the payment was charged to my credit card without an OTP, can it still be disputed? Is it worth a shot?

22 Comments  |  
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@A2Zdeals @abhishek012 @Roushh Sorry guys to bug you, just need some expert opinion, don’t know a lot of people on the forum, please copy someone who can help and others who can benefit.

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Deal Lieutenant
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where you used Netflix ? smile

you can’t dispute or chargeback for recurring payment subscription unless it’s fraud transaction.

dnt forget to cancel your subscription before free trial expired otherwise merchant have rights to renew your subscription plan and deduct money from your credit card or debit card or internet banking.

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@Tejaa

Premam first look.jpg.image.784.410 1491053822386
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The best option would be fighting with the merchant itself through multiple channel. Show them enough proofs that you weren’t aware of it.

If it doesn’t work. Collect the proofs and mark a dispute with SBI. No harm in trying.

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Charge backs only work with fraud. Even when they dont provide acceptable service or no service the card companies still wont help.

If the companies dont cancel the transaction it is very difficult to get your money back. I think all the posts about getting money back easily are by lying. I wasted months trying to get a large amount back and other than telling a dozen people all about the problem, nothing happened as the company kept saying they provided stated services.

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Deal Subedar
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No chance with SBI. Try with merchant only

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Give it a try chances are slim with SBI, i filed a dispute took 2 months followup eventually merchant gave what i wanted
Though i have successfully got disputes done with Axis Amex and Indusind for undelivered international orders and once against flipkart

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karanoshan wrote:

Give it a try chances are slim with SBI, i filed a dispute took 2 months followup eventually merchant gave what i wanted
Though i have successfully got disputes done with Axis Amex and Indusind for undelivered international orders and once against flipkart

Again, when you pay for something and its not delivered it is considered fraud. But if they deliver it and it does not work as expected or was mislead into looking more costly than it is etc then dont expect to get a charge back.. Only thing you can expect by using a card is that when you pay for something, they wont take the money and run off.

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alienteck wrote:

Charge backs only work with fraud. Even when they dont provide acceptable service or no service the card companies still wont help.

Not true. If you read chargeback form many other reasons are there for charging back the amount. Like good services not provided, failed transaction etc.

Best bet for op would be to intimidate merchant with chargeback itself. Most merchant fear it as they have to penalty also along with original amount.

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jambui wrote:

Not true. If you read chargeback form many other reasons are there for charging back the amount. Like good services not provided, failed transaction etc.

Best bet for op would be to intimidate merchant with chargeback itself. Most merchant fear it as they have to penalty also along with original amount.

and you have experience with this? I think all the posts about getting money back easily are by lying.

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alienteck wrote:

and you have experience with this? I think all the posts about getting money back easily are by lying.

Yep i did chargeback many times. Once with citibank, once with yes bank. Sucessful both times. Gave full proof with email and transactions screenshot.

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I am your guy here, won’t get into details here but think of me working in a company handling the dispute process of the company itself, company is a merchant not a bank that I work for and we take chargeback very very seriously. Once the chargeback is final, trust me you can’t go back and it’ll hit you hard. Let me give you examples in your case what works and what might not work. Also it depends what merchant it was and what platform it was. did the merchant charge the card on his gateway or was there a middle man, like let’s say a gym membership, in that case merchant is charging you directly via his terminal provided by the bank. Or let’s say a tinder membership where merchant is not directly charging you but instead apple or google is charging you on merchant behalfs.

Now, understand this. Regardless which bank you start the dispute process with, every bank (local, international or smallest or biggest bank) works under “dispute reason code” for VISA or mastercard (I don’t know anything about RUPAY). If it was AMEX , then AMEX handles the dispute directly and no middle man is in b/w. Amex, visa, mastercard , these are not financial instructions, these are networks or associations under which banks are members in. Not for fraud as you are saying, that’s called “Fraud CNP – Card not present” dispute. It means exactly how it sounds – i.e customer card was charged without any authorization so it’s fraud. Now, the thing is, if you used the card with the merchant for 2 trxns (one initially and one after – renewal) and you dispute only the 2nd trxn – then basically you are shit out of luck as it basically tells VISA that cx is not saying 1st trxn is fraud which raises questions on customer rather than on merchant. Now, if you have interacted with the merchant and you accepted the merchants T&C when doing the payment (which ofc you did) then all merchant needs to do is provide paperwork to VISA network copies of the email with a paper trail of customers account info and previously authorized charge and you will lose the chargeback(dispute). Now, if you dispute all trxns with the merchant then may be there is a chance but no, still you interacted with the merchant so no it’s not a fraud. Now, remember something here “Scams” or “not satisfied with the service or product” is not something VISA consider to be fair dispute so you will lose dispute anyways. Now if this is a merchant which do often get’s chargebacks then in that case the merchant might have automated the process to file paperwork for disputes with a 3rd party company who represents them on dispute process for example chargeback.com or chargeback911.com . These people are PRO and they know their shit and know how to convert a chargeback to a win. So you are shit out of luck there too.

2nd, OTP based trxns works with indian merchants, however outside India it depends on the merchant if he wants to enable VBV/MSC on their trxns or not. and this VBV is not always OTP based, sometimes they are purely risk based too as when VBV Bank hosted page comes in b/w the transactions, the payment either get’s approved or declined depending on the IP address when the payment was done, AVS Match (address verification system) and customer’s card usage pattern.

Now your way out here > dispute > under CNP Fraud > Merchant doesn’t give a shit so no one handles their chargeback or may be merchant has a huge customer base and generally this merchant hardly get’s chargebacks, in that case, merchant might not respond to the dispute (sometimes that happens, may be amazon, flipkart, apple, facebook – generally big companies), hence you win it because merchant chose not to fight it as they have better things to do than to waste time here, so you will win. But in case if they reply, you are screwed not only on your money but your credit score impacts too (40-50 points) as basically you were trying to dispute a trxn with a merchant where you claimed merchant is a fraud but as you lost so turns out you were the fraud not merchant, just an example I am giving you.

As I said before, there are many dispute reason codes for VISA/MC , you can try disputing as “Services defective” – don’t expect support from SBI on this, they hardly know how to dispute in the first place, but I am sure there is someone in SBI who knows what they are doing, all you need to do is to go to the branch and check the box for services defective yourself, but again email trail will make you lose the dispute. I have fought about 58 disputes total till date and with customers and I have won 56. Companies hate disputes unless it’s a big MNC , in that case they don’t give a damn unless the amount is big. If those 56 screwed up customers would have called us first before chargeback , we would have pretty much given them a refund for the full amount, but the customer’s never tried. Anyways, they lost thinking they will win but VISA and MC dispute works in a very professional manner, there is no emotions, empathy, or sadness involved in this. It’s all depends on the evidence. If the customer or merchant loses the dispute, they can again file a new claim for the same dispute with some new evidence, and if that works, you might lose the chargeback. VISA rules allow arbitrary chargeback (2 times chargeback) however your bank might not be interested or not allow it.

My suggestions : dispute all the trxns you did, and see if your luck works out. Or tell the merchant if they won’t refund, your other option will be to disputing with the bank, if they don’t budge , then give up? I mean is it really worth it ?

Chargeback revenue loss is something nowadays merchant hate and they have a pretty good grip on them. It’s better to do business in good faith with any merchant, and remember once the dispute process starts, you can’t cancel it. VISA/MC don’t allow cancellation. it’s either you win or merchant wins. Now, regardless who win’s, let me tell you, if merchant ends up losing, they can still sue you legally based on the evidence (an example, generally merchant doesn’t give a damn however, they do have that option – I am just saying). Last option ? Work it out with the merchant, if they are big enough and you don’t stop arguing with them, they might just go ahead and refund you out of good will gesture. Chargebacks are expensive for every merchant and no one likes it. Our company pays about $35 for every dispute we receive and $25 for representation of the dispute. even if we end up winning the dispute, those fees are something we still have to pay, it doesn’t get’s reversed. Some banks even charge the customer a fee for dispute (foreign banks) and in case if cx loses the dispute, cx hs to pay the interest on the dispute amount as it is not initially billed to you if you are using a credit card.

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jambui wrote:

Yep i did chargeback many times. Once with citibank, once with yes bank. Sucessful both times. Gave full proof with email and transactions screenshot.

Without much more details, your statement is meaningless.

what sobirvs wrote is pretty accurate..

I think all the posts about getting money back easily are by lying.

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alienteck wrote:

Without much more details, your statement is meaningless.

what sobirvs wrote is pretty accurate..

I think all the posts about getting money back easily are by lying.

Its much more meaningful than yours then which says chargeback is for fraud only. Without having any knowledge of topic altogether. Get lost.

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sobirvs wrote:

I am your guy here, won’t get into details here but think of me working in a company handling the dispute process of the company itself, company is a merchant not a bank that I work for and we take chargeback very very seriously. Once the chargeback is final, trust me you can’t go back and it’ll hit you hard. Let me give you examples in your case what works and what might not work. Also it depends what merchant it was and what platform it was. did the merchant charge the card on his gateway or was there a middle man, like let’s say a gym membership, in that case merchant is charging you directly via his terminal provided by the bank. Or let’s say a tinder membership where merchant is not directly charging you but instead apple or google is charging you on merchant behalfs.

Now, understand this. Regardless which bank you start the dispute process with, every bank (local, international or smallest or biggest bank) works under “dispute reason code” for VISA or mastercard (I don’t know anything about RUPAY). If it was AMEX , then AMEX handles the dispute directly and no middle man is in b/w. Amex, visa, mastercard , these are not financial instructions, these are networks or associations under which banks are members in. Not for fraud as you are saying, that’s called “Fraud CNP – Card not present” dispute. It means exactly how it sounds – i.e customer card was charged without any authorization so it’s fraud. Now, the thing is, if you used the card with the merchant for 2 trxns (one initially and one after – renewal) and you dispute only the 2nd trxn – then basically you are shit out of luck as it basically tells VISA that cx is not saying 1st trxn is fraud which raises questions on customer rather than on merchant. Now, if you have interacted with the merchant and you accepted the merchants T&C when doing the payment (which ofc you did) then all merchant needs to do is provide paperwork to VISA network copies of the email with a paper trail of customers account info and previously authorized charge and you will lose the chargeback(dispute). Now, if you dispute all trxns with the merchant then may be there is a chance but no, still you interacted with the merchant so no it’s not a fraud. Now, remember something here “Scams” or “not satisfied with the service or product” is not something VISA consider to be fair dispute so you will lose dispute anyways. Now if this is a merchant which do often get’s chargebacks then in that case the merchant might have automated the process to file paperwork for disputes with a 3rd party company who represents them on dispute process for example chargeback.com or chargeback911.com . These people are PRO and they know their shit and know how to convert a chargeback to a win. So you are shit out of luck there too.

2nd, OTP based trxns works with indian merchants, however outside India it depends on the merchant if he wants to enable VBV/MSC on their trxns or not. and this VBV is not always OTP based, sometimes they are purely risk based too as when VBV Bank hosted page comes in b/w the transactions, the payment either get’s approved or declined depending on the IP address when the payment was done, AVS Match (address verification system) and customer’s card usage pattern.

Now your way out here > dispute > under CNP Fraud > Merchant doesn’t give a shit so no one handles their chargeback or may be merchant has a huge customer base and generally this merchant hardly get’s chargebacks, in that case, merchant might not respond to the dispute (sometimes that happens, may be amazon, flipkart, apple, facebook – generally big companies), hence you win it because merchant chose not to fight it as they have better things to do than to waste time here, so you will win. But in case if they reply, you are screwed not only on your money but your credit score impacts too (40-50 points) as basically you were trying to dispute a trxn with a merchant where you claimed merchant is a fraud but as you lost so turns out you were the fraud not merchant, just an example I am giving you.

As I said before, there are many dispute reason codes for VISA/MC , you can try disputing as “Services defective” – don’t expect support from SBI on this, they hardly know how to dispute in the first place, but I am sure there is someone in SBI who knows what they are doing, all you need to do is to go to the branch and check the box for services defective yourself, but again email trail will make you lose the dispute. I have fought about 58 disputes total till date and with customers and I have won 56. Companies hate disputes unless it’s a big MNC , in that case they don’t give a damn unless the amount is big. If those 56 screwed up customers would have called us first before chargeback , we would have pretty much given them a refund for the full amount, but the customer’s never tried. Anyways, they lost thinking they will win but VISA and MC dispute works in a very professional manner, there is no emotions, empathy, or sadness involved in this. It’s all depends on the evidence. If the customer or merchant loses the dispute, they can again file a new claim for the same dispute with some new evidence, and if that works, you might lose the chargeback. VISA rules allow arbitrary chargeback (2 times chargeback) however your bank might not be interested or not allow it.

My suggestions : dispute all the trxns you did, and see if your luck works out. Or tell the merchant if they won’t refund, your other option will be to disputing with the bank, if they don’t budge , then give up? I mean is it really worth it ?

Chargeback revenue loss is something nowadays merchant hate and they have a pretty good grip on them. It’s better to do business in good faith with any merchant, and remember once the dispute process starts, you can’t cancel it. VISA/MC don’t allow cancellation. it’s either you win or merchant wins. Now, regardless who win’s, let me tell you, if merchant ends up losing, they can still sue you legally based on the evidence (an example, generally merchant doesn’t give a damn however, they do have that option – I am just saying). Last option ? Work it out with the merchant, if they are big enough and you don’t stop arguing with them, they might just go ahead and refund you out of good will gesture. Chargebacks are expensive for every merchant and no one likes it. Our company pays about $35 for every dispute we receive and $25 for representation of the dispute. even if we end up winning the dispute, those fees are something we still have to pay, it doesn’t get’s reversed. Some banks even charge the customer a fee for dispute (foreign banks) and in case if cx loses the dispute, cx hs to pay the interest on the dispute amount as it is not initially billed to you if you are using a credit card.

we should hire someone to read your long essay. smile stuck_out_tongue

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sobirvs wrote:

I am your guy here, won’t get into details here but think of me working in a company handling the dispute process of the company itself, company is a merchant not a bank that I work for and we take chargeback very very seriously. Once the chargeback is final, trust me you can’t go back and it’ll hit you hard. Let me give you examples in your case what works and what might not work. Also it depends what merchant it was and what platform it was. did the merchant charge the card on his gateway or was there a middle man, like let’s say a gym membership, in that case merchant is charging you directly via his terminal provided by the bank. Or let’s say a tinder membership where merchant is not directly charging you but instead apple or google is charging you on merchant behalfs.

Now, understand this. Regardless which bank you start the dispute process with, every bank (local, international or smallest or biggest bank) works under “dispute reason code” for VISA or mastercard (I don’t know anything about RUPAY). If it was AMEX , then AMEX handles the dispute directly and no middle man is in b/w. Amex, visa, mastercard , these are not financial instructions, these are networks or associations under which banks are members in. Not for fraud as you are saying, that’s called “Fraud CNP – Card not present” dispute. It means exactly how it sounds – i.e customer card was charged without any authorization so it’s fraud. Now, the thing is, if you used the card with the merchant for 2 trxns (one initially and one after – renewal) and you dispute only the 2nd trxn – then basically you are shit out of luck as it basically tells VISA that cx is not saying 1st trxn is fraud which raises questions on customer rather than on merchant. Now, if you have interacted with the merchant and you accepted the merchants T&C when doing the payment (which ofc you did) then all merchant needs to do is provide paperwork to VISA network copies of the email with a paper trail of customers account info and previously authorized charge and you will lose the chargeback(dispute). Now, if you dispute all trxns with the merchant then may be there is a chance but no, still you interacted with the merchant so no it’s not a fraud. Now, remember something here “Scams” or “not satisfied with the service or product” is not something VISA consider to be fair dispute so you will lose dispute anyways. Now if this is a merchant which do often get’s chargebacks then in that case the merchant might have automated the process to file paperwork for disputes with a 3rd party company who represents them on dispute process for example chargeback.com or chargeback911.com . These people are PRO and they know their shit and know how to convert a chargeback to a win. So you are shit out of luck there too.

2nd, OTP based trxns works with indian merchants, however outside India it depends on the merchant if he wants to enable VBV/MSC on their trxns or not. and this VBV is not always OTP based, sometimes they are purely risk based too as when VBV Bank hosted page comes in b/w the transactions, the payment either get’s approved or declined depending on the IP address when the payment was done, AVS Match (address verification system) and customer’s card usage pattern.

Now your way out here > dispute > under CNP Fraud > Merchant doesn’t give a shit so no one handles their chargeback or may be merchant has a huge customer base and generally this merchant hardly get’s chargebacks, in that case, merchant might not respond to the dispute (sometimes that happens, may be amazon, flipkart, apple, facebook – generally big companies), hence you win it because merchant chose not to fight it as they have better things to do than to waste time here, so you will win. But in case if they reply, you are screwed not only on your money but your credit score impacts too (40-50 points) as basically you were trying to dispute a trxn with a merchant where you claimed merchant is a fraud but as you lost so turns out you were the fraud not merchant, just an example I am giving you.

As I said before, there are many dispute reason codes for VISA/MC , you can try disputing as “Services defective” – don’t expect support from SBI on this, they hardly know how to dispute in the first place, but I am sure there is someone in SBI who knows what they are doing, all you need to do is to go to the branch and check the box for services defective yourself, but again email trail will make you lose the dispute. I have fought about 58 disputes total till date and with customers and I have won 56. Companies hate disputes unless it’s a big MNC , in that case they don’t give a damn unless the amount is big. If those 56 screwed up customers would have called us first before chargeback , we would have pretty much given them a refund for the full amount, but the customer’s never tried. Anyways, they lost thinking they will win but VISA and MC dispute works in a very professional manner, there is no emotions, empathy, or sadness involved in this. It’s all depends on the evidence. If the customer or merchant loses the dispute, they can again file a new claim for the same dispute with some new evidence, and if that works, you might lose the chargeback. VISA rules allow arbitrary chargeback (2 times chargeback) however your bank might not be interested or not allow it.

My suggestions : dispute all the trxns you did, and see if your luck works out. Or tell the merchant if they won’t refund, your other option will be to disputing with the bank, if they don’t budge , then give up? I mean is it really worth it ?

Chargeback revenue loss is something nowadays merchant hate and they have a pretty good grip on them. It’s better to do business in good faith with any merchant, and remember once the dispute process starts, you can’t cancel it. VISA/MC don’t allow cancellation. it’s either you win or merchant wins. Now, regardless who win’s, let me tell you, if merchant ends up losing, they can still sue you legally based on the evidence (an example, generally merchant doesn’t give a damn however, they do have that option – I am just saying). Last option ? Work it out with the merchant, if they are big enough and you don’t stop arguing with them, they might just go ahead and refund you out of good will gesture. Chargebacks are expensive for every merchant and no one likes it. Our company pays about $35 for every dispute we receive and $25 for representation of the dispute. even if we end up winning the dispute, those fees are something we still have to pay, it doesn’t get’s reversed. Some banks even charge the customer a fee for dispute (foreign banks) and in case if cx loses the dispute, cx hs to pay the interest on the dispute amount as it is not initially billed to you if you are using a credit card.

Woh, thats lot of information at once. Thanks.

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lol I could write about disputes/chargeback alot. It’s too much fun. And more fun is – when our company wins the dispute. It’s a slap on the face of that fraud customer. And the best part is, when we win the dispute, we don’t even have to give the service or product to the customer even if he returned it. It does not matter. Though customer can sue us, but for an amount if it’s less than 50k, customer really just gives up and then think he/she made a mistake. As much as banks have made dispute process easier, customer should always and I mean it always talk to the merchant and work things out. On a transaction, on both ends there are people , civilized people.

One thing I will point out, even banks are evil in this, they don’t even suggest the customer to talk it out with the merchant first to see if it get’s better, they just start the dispute right away giving customer’s the dream that he/she will get the money back. But at the end, banks won’t take liability if you lose the dispute. More over a merchant get’s the rights to charge customer’s card through merchant account, if the merchant receives more than 1-2 charge-backs out of 100 trxns (regardless small or big) , he will lose his merchant account and then either work with cheques only or cash. So it’s not that safe for merchant either though.

The best way (a stretch) would be to threaten the merchant for negative reviews on social media, and the merchant might budge. Anywyas, won’t bore any of you guys with an essay or anything.

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sobirvs wrote:

My suggestions : dispute all the trxns you did, and see if your luck works out. Or tell the merchant if they won’t refund, your other option will be to disputing with the bank, if they don’t budge , then give up? I mean is it really worth it ?

Just because you won the case doesn’t mean customer is dishonest all the time.
We are talking about genuine case here and yes its worth it because it our hard earned money.

My advice to OP don’t do what he advised on disputing all the txns. Only charge-back for the transaction which actually were done without your authority. For which you have proof and yes email proof that you approached merchant before definitely is biggest plus point.

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@sobirvs no, actually its interesting to hear you.. if you can write more, please go on. Thanks blush

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jambui wrote:

Just because you won the case doesn’t mean customer is dishonest all the time.
We are talking about genuine case here and yes its worth it because it our hard earned money.

My advice to OP don’t do what he advised on disputing all the txns. Only charge-back for the transaction which actually were done without your authority. For which you have proof and yes email proof that you approached merchant before definitely is biggest plus point.

Okay, so you basically mean to tell OP to go ahead with the dispute but only for one trxn and do the dispute under Fraud CNP and send email proof to the bank. Do you see the irony on this? Fraud-CNP means exactly how it sounds. It means trxn done without OP knowledge or consent or auth. I know it’s hard earned money of customer’s but please don’t tell OP to go ahead as what you suggested would make OP to lose the case easily.

OP clearly wants to do fraud, which I am not against off, bcoz sure, it’s his card and his money , he can do anythijng, however there is something called doing business in good faith.

Btw you might be surprised to know customer is dishonest 90% of the times in a chargeback process. Clear example is this that we see here in this thread. What OP wants to do is called “Friendly fraud” for card networks.

Ref : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback...ud

If you want to abuse the dispute process, go ahead by all means. What I was suggesting to OP was actually not to do it as it’s not worth it, and not worth the hassle but told OP if he wants to go ahead then what “might” work. I told him what I have the experience of. Anyways, you might have a different opinion and experience.

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@dummyuser what’d you do finally? Filed a chargeback or got it settled with the merchant?

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schumacher wrote:

@dummyuser what’d you do finally? Filed a chargeback or got it settled with the merchant?

Nah, I politely requested merchant to settle it, they took a month but finally did considering they had got me by the balls

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