Hotness VRK Diet/Keto type of diet - Cholesterol levels...

Hot Deal VRK Diet/Keto type of diet - Cholesterol levels and sugar levels - Real example discussion

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I have a real example of Cholesterol levels and sugar levels of a person of age 62 years. He did VRK diet (similar to Keto, less carb, high protein and high fat diet.)
He did the diet for three months from 28Nov19 to 05Mar20. but he did not follow the diet rules couple of days in between. He also did not use sugar tablets for all three months.

Test name…………………..26Nov19 …………. 06Mar20

Total cholesterol (Mg/dL)… 229 ………….. 305
Serum Triglyceride……….. 542 ………….. 125
HDL ………………………… 36 …………… 56
LDL ………………………… 128 …………. 227
HbA1c …………………….. 9.2 ………… 6.8

What is your opinion ? Please comment, if you are familiar with it.

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present LDL is way above and increases the risk of arterial blockage. it has significantly worsened during the period. HbA1c is also still high.
also, what are the results of liver function test and kidney function test.

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This is for @panchabhut

>>>
Sugar levels in the body is dependent upon the foods we eat the speed of its digestion. The most vulnerable time is in the morning after entire night’s fasting. For a normal healthy person with reasonable body fat, this is compensated by the body using available body fat. But for someone whose body is not regulating sugar levels efficiently and at the same time whose body fat have been trimmed as part of the treatment, these are most crucial time. I have known cases where the fasting sugar dropped to below 70 in such cases, and at lest half of them were not on any standard medication.
>>>
You may be talking about special cases whose body system is completely out of control. Lets not get it into multiple issues patients.
.
.

>>>>

For those detected with Type II diabetes, their pancreas is mostly generating normal insulin, but the efficiency of their other body parts to utilise that insulin is reduced. There are means of increasing this efficiency. At the same time, completely avoiding carbs is not the way forward, as it also means loss of vital nutrients, minerals and vitamins essential for our body. The way froward is the switch to more complex carbs and high fibre non-processed food that takes longer to digest and assimilate into the blood stream.
Overcoming diabetes, without causing harm to the body, requires longterm complete lifestyle change and can not be achieved by some fly by night quick shot diet plan.
As for the fact that homo sapiens started as vegetarian, well that is a scientifically accepted and proven fact, just as the fact that somewhere in the evolutionary process, we have shifted to become hunter-gatherer. So it would not change just because some blind follower of some self styled diet god decides to reject it.
>>>>>
There are two types fuel systems for our body.
1)Fat based fuel: It doesnt require insulin at all since there is no glucose in it. Fat gets converted to ketones which fuels our body.
2)Carbs based fuel: It converts to glucose and the glucose requires insulin. Thats where the diabetic issue.
Do you agree with the above two points?

BTW, please comment on the above cholesterol and sugar levels. it will be useful for our readers.

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Deal Subedar
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LDL is the bad cholesterol. It is very high. Chances of cardiac complications, hypertension since he is already diabetic.
HbA1c is little high. What are the regular blood sugar levels?
Ask him to decrease his consumption of fats. As far as carbohydrates go, he has to take control of potion size, and prefer low glycemic index foods.
Keeping blood sugar levels under control is necessary to prevent other complications (and they are many). So ask him to take his diabetes medications regularly, at least till the time he can successfully bring his sugar levels under control with lifestyle and diet modifications.
And please ask him not to stop medications on his own, or practice other options, without consulting his doctor.

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panchabhut wrote:

present LDL is way above and increases the risk of arterial blockage. it has significantly worsened during the period. HbA1c is also still high.
also, what are the results of liver function test and kidney function test.

The liver function and Kidney function tests are with in the limits in both reports.

See my explanation below reply.

PS: Liver and Kidney tests are mandatory before starting the VRK diet.

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If you see the report of the dated 06mar20, without considering the report dated 26Nov19, most of the doctors would have given prescription for reduction of High cholesterol.
But that is wrong.

But the reality is, before starting the diet, he had high levels of Serum Triglyceride due to high intake of carbs, low levels of HDL and higj levels of HbA1c, which are DEADLY combinations. He has been eating high carbs and in turn having high sugar levels. On doctors suggestions, he has been using diabetic medication for more than 20 years.

After the diet, he has reduced the HbA1c to accepted levels without medication, good improvement. No need to continue the diabetic medicine for this level.
He also improved the HDL , which is very difficult to achieve with in couple of months (with or without medicine OR with food habit changes. Since he is old man , we can not ask him to do workout in Gym, as workouts only improve the HDL over more than 12 months period).

So with this diet, he has come out of the DEADLY combination risk and now he can choose to good food habits and life style changes OR he can continue this diet for few more weeks and get that HbA1c to further down to around 5.

Now he just needs to concentrate on bringing down the LDL. Which is not a big task, as it cools down after reducing the Fat intake. LDL alone can not do any thing, without the support of the sugar and HDL.
Also, he needs to consume dried ginger,turmeric, cinnamon, pepper and cumin powders for couple of weeks.

VRK/Keto is only the way to come out of the DEADLY combinations.

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mas143forever wrote:

LDL is the bad cholesterol. It is very high. Chances of cardiac complications, hypertension since he is already diabetic.
HbA1c is little high. What are the regular blood sugar levels?
Ask him to decrease his consumption of fats. As far as carbohydrates go, he has to take control of potion size, and prefer low glycemic index foods.
Keeping blood sugar levels under control is necessary to prevent other complications (and they are many). So ask him to take his diabetes medications regularly, at least till the time he can successfully bring his sugar levels under control with lifestyle and diet modifications.
And please ask him not to stop medications on his own, or practice other options, without consulting his doctor.

Just see my explanation above….

LDL alone can not do any thing even if it is more than 400 with out the support from HDL and sugar level.
His sugar levels are already in control due to diet, which is shown in HbA1c.

As I said in other posts, there is no medicine which can bring down the sugar levels permanently.
Sugar tablets temporary bring down the levels. Thats what the person did for last 20 years.
He started with sugar tablet power of 500mg, and then reached to 1000mg, to 1500mg, to 2000mg and finally to insulin 20 points over these years.

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@ OP
You have hard coded into your brain that the VRK/Keto diet is the greatest thing to happen ever on this world and there is absolutely no flaw in it. So no point of talking logic or medical science with you.
I suggest you continue with the diet for yourself as well as you near and dear ones. Then experience the consequences first hand. There is no learning better than own experience. Yes, the learning may come at a great cost, but then, it would be permanent learning.

Medication alone can not cure Type II diabetes. There has to be major lifestyle changes. Otherwise, the doses of medication will continue to rise, to compensate for the ill effects of poor lifestyle. But at the same time, completely cutting of carbs is not the solution. Our body needs necessary minerals and vitamins to survive, as well as certain minimum levels of sugar.
If a 62 year old has been on diabetic medication for 20 years, it would imply that he was detected in early 40s. Even then, he continued to abuse his body for 2 decades. The data of body weight has not been indicated. Neither the data on Liver function and Kidney function. Just drop in HbA1c and Triglyceride does not imply anything unless all relevant parameters are linked.

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His Non-HDL Cholesterol was too high (195) even on 28Nov19…why would he even try high protein+high fat diet flushed
Any doctor would’ve prescribed cholesterol tablets like storvas if his family has a history of heart disease

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panchabhut wrote:

@ OP
You have hard coded into your brain that the VRK/Keto diet is the greatest thing to happen ever on this world and there is absolutely no flaw in it. So no point of talking logic or medical science with you.
I suggest you continue with the diet for yourself as well as you near and dear ones. Then experience the consequences first hand. There is no learning better than own experience. Yes, the learning may come at a great cost, but then, it would be permanent learning.

Medication alone can not cure Type II diabetes. There has to be major lifestyle changes. Otherwise, the doses of medication will continue to rise, to compensate for the ill effects of poor lifestyle. But at the same time, completely cutting of carbs is not the solution. Our body needs necessary minerals and vitamins to survive, as well as certain minimum levels of sugar.
If a 62 year old has been on diabetic medication for 20 years, it would imply that he was detected in early 40s. Even then, he continued to abuse his body for 2 decades. The data of body weight has not been indicated. Neither the data on Liver function and Kidney function. Just drop in HbA1c and Triglyceride does not imply anything unless all relevant parameters are linked.

>>>
You have hard coded into your brain that the VRK/Keto diet is the greatest thing to happen ever on this world and there is absolutely no flaw in it. So no point of talking logic or medical science with you.
I suggest you continue with the diet for yourself as well as you near and dear ones. Then experience the consequences first hand. There is no learning better than own experience. Yes, the learning may come at a great cost, but then, it would be permanent learning.
>>>>

I have followed the diet for 2 months 1 year ago (2018)and reduced my weight of 10kgs.
Before that I had followed GM diet, but was not successful.
This diet was started by VRK in the year 2016 with experiments on his body.
I checked my blood reports before the diet and after the diet. They are good and verified and accepted by doctor. The reports are mandatory as per VRK. He wanted to make sure that reports speak about the diet. This diet make wonders in Weight reduction, diabetics, bp, pcod for girls, psoriasis etc (life style diseases).
.
.
.
>>>>
Medication alone can not cure Type II diabetes. There has to be major lifestyle changes. Otherwise, the doses of medication will continue to rise, to compensate for the ill effects of poor lifestyle. But at the same time, completely cutting of carbs is not the solution. Our body needs necessary minerals and vitamins to survive, as well as certain minimum levels of sugar.
If a 62 year old has been on diabetic medication for 20 years, it would imply that he was detected in early 40s. Even then, he continued to abuse his body for 2 decades. The data of body weight has not been indicated. Neither the data on Liver function and Kidney function. Just drop in HbA1c and Triglyceride does not imply anything unless all relevant parameters are linked.
>>>>
This diet (for that matter any diet) is for the people who did not follow healthy lifestyle rules and had obesity. There is no point in asking every one to follow healthy life style from birth, because it is impossible since world is not perfect.

VRK diet has typical rules which needs to be followed with or without workouts during the diet.
For example, one need to take lemon water, clear butter milk, clear veg soup and multivitamin tablets, which contains vitamins, minerals, calcium etc.
I will explain in detail later posts.

BTW, the Liver function and kidney function tests of the old man are more or less same before the diet and after the diet.

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getready wrote:

His Non-HDL Cholesterol was too high (195) even on 28Nov19…why would he even try high protein+high fat diet flushed
Any doctor would’ve prescribed cholesterol tablets like storvas if his family has a history of heart disease

Thats right. According to our doctors association, they are supposed to prescribe drugs.
Our doctors association follow the same american association.
The American doctors association is a scam. They get bribed by drug companies to prescribe drugs unnecessarily. The prescribed limits for cholesterol and sugar levels are in favor of the drug companies.

The Ketone is the key here, which doesnt require insulin. Fat from coconut oil or ghee increases the both cholesterols. As I said earlier, LDL alone can not do any thing. So increasing the LDL along with HDL is ok. In general, improving the good cholesterol (HDL) is very difficult, which requires gym workouts and other food changes and it takes long time. (I have followed all HDL improving foods for 4 years and got a HDL increase of just 10 points). Also, coconut oil and ghee burns the fat from our body due to IF.
Check the facts about coconut oil.

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ramadesidime wrote:

Thats right. According to our doctors association, they are supposed to prescribe drugs.
Our doctors association follow the same american association.
The American doctors association is a scam. They get bribed by drug companies to prescribe drugs unnecessarily. The prescribed limits for cholesterol and sugar levels are in favor of the drug companies.

The Ketone is the key here, which doesnt require insulin. Fat from coconut oil or ghee increases the both cholesterols. As I said earlier, LDL alone can not do any thing. So increasing the LDL along with HDL is ok. In general, improving the good cholesterol (HDL) is very difficult, which requires gym workouts and other food changes and it takes long time. (I have followed all HDL improving foods for 4 years and got a HDL increase of just 10 points). Also, coconut oil and ghee burns the fat from our body due to IF.
Check the facts about coconut oil.

Can you please cite some source regarding what’s the acceptable levels of HDL/LDL and how LDL rise along with HDL rise is ok?

From all that I could infer, we are always told that LDL below 100 is desirable. Just want to understand further as to how LDL rise along with HDL rise is ok as this is something contradictory to what we keep getting told in general.

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ramadesidime wrote:

This is for @panchabhut

>>>
Sugar levels in the body is dependent upon the foods we eat the speed of its digestion. The most vulnerable time is in the morning after entire night’s fasting. For a normal healthy person with reasonable body fat, this is compensated by the body using available body fat. But for someone whose body is not regulating sugar levels efficiently and at the same time whose body fat have been trimmed as part of the treatment, these are most crucial time. I have known cases where the fasting sugar dropped to below 70 in such cases, and at lest half of them were not on any standard medication.
>>>
You may be talking about special cases whose body system is completely out of control. Lets not get it into multiple issues patients.
.
.

>>>>

For those detected with Type II diabetes, their pancreas is mostly generating normal insulin, but the efficiency of their other body parts to utilise that insulin is reduced. There are means of increasing this efficiency. At the same time, completely avoiding carbs is not the way forward, as it also means loss of vital nutrients, minerals and vitamins essential for our body. The way froward is the switch to more complex carbs and high fibre non-processed food that takes longer to digest and assimilate into the blood stream.
Overcoming diabetes, without causing harm to the body, requires longterm complete lifestyle change and can not be achieved by some fly by night quick shot diet plan.
As for the fact that homo sapiens started as vegetarian, well that is a scientifically accepted and proven fact, just as the fact that somewhere in the evolutionary process, we have shifted to become hunter-gatherer. So it would not change just because some blind follower of some self styled diet god decides to reject it.
>>>>>
There are two types fuel systems for our body.
1)Fat based fuel: It doesnt require insulin at all since there is no glucose in it. Fat gets converted to ketones which fuels our body.
2)Carbs based fuel: It converts to glucose and the glucose requires insulin. Thats where the diabetic issue.
Do you agree with the above two points?

BTW, please comment on the above cholesterol and sugar levels. it will be useful for our readers.

Ways to reduce weight.

For people (BMI <25)who can follow strict diet irrespective of the cravings (example, no sugar eating, no high glycemic index foods eating like mango fruits etc):

Workouts in gym – do work outs couple of months – reduce couple of kgs
Diet – Healthy balanced food – do for couple of years – reduce couple of kgs

The weight comes down due to fact that calorie intake is less than calorie burning.

For people (BMI >21 & type 2 sugar patients) who can NOT follow strict diet rules for longer period (couple of weeks).

Keto/VRK type of diet(High protein, High fat, very less carb).
The weight comes down due to fact that calorie intake is less than calorie burning + fat burning due to Intermittent Fasting(IF).

Since there are no (or very less) carbs are added to the body, the sugar/glucose level is constant at minimum level, hence the brain triggers body fat burning.

The key point here is keeping the glucose level at minimum and constant, which can only happens when the body is not given glucose.
At the same time, energy is supplied by ketones (which come from food fat).

Any comments?

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raghupro wrote:

Can you please cite some source regarding what’s the acceptable levels of HDL/LDL and how LDL rise along with HDL rise is ok?

From all that I could infer, we are always told that LDL below 100 is desirable. Just want to understand further as to how LDL rise along with HDL rise is ok as this is something contradictory to what we keep getting told in general.

Good values:
Total cholesterol <200
LDL <129
HDL >40

When you try to increase HDL, LDL gets increased automatically. No choice for us.

Single LDL or HDL alone will not harm. Combination of multiple parameters harm the person. Hence raising both LDL and HDL is ok.

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While the discussion is going i also want some consultation as i have done tests twice and my cholesterol levels are quite high although my diet is completely low
Here are my levels

Total cholesterol : 259
Serum triglyceride: 226
Serum HDL: 34.1
Serum LDL: 180.2

Could any body tell me why my levels are so high

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Guys please suggest good veg keto foods.

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ramadesidime wrote:

Good values:
Total cholesterol <200
LDL <129
HDL >40

When you try to increase HDL, LDL gets increased automatically. No choice for us.

Single LDL or HDL alone will not harm. Combination of multiple parameters harm the person. Hence raising both LDL and HDL is ok.

But the parameters that you posted suggest total cholesterol of 305 and LDL 227. Might not be possible to increase HDL without increase in LDL but these values are alarming, especially for elders.

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st303 wrote:

While the discussion is going i also want some consultation as i have done tests twice and my cholesterol levels are quite high although my diet is completely low
Here are my levels

Total cholesterol : 259
Serum triglyceride: 226
Serum HDL: 34.1
Serum LDL: 180.2

Could any body tell me why my levels are so high

HDL values are low and LDL values are high.
Prima facie indicates unbalanced intake of fat, with high transfat in food, possibly high in non-lean animal protein. But cannot be commented further without details of regular food intake, level of daily exercise, and current medications if any.

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ramadesidime wrote:

Good values:
Total cholesterol <200
LDL <129
HDL >40

When you try to increase HDL, LDL gets increased automatically. No choice for us.

Single LDL or HDL alone will not harm. Combination of multiple parameters harm the person. Hence raising both LDL and HDL is ok.

Incorrect.
HDL levels can be increased while reducing LDL levels.
And no one follows healthy lifestyle from birth. But once medical problems are detected, they must change their lifestyle, or face the consequences.

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panchabhut wrote:

HDL values are low and LDL values are high.
Prima facie indicates unbalanced intake of fat, with high transfat in food, possibly high in non-lean animal protein. But cannot be commented further without details of regular food intake, level of daily exercise, and current medications if any.

Tell me all the details you need and i am a vegetarian I don’t eat non veg at all

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st303 wrote:

While the discussion is going i also want some consultation as i have done tests twice and my cholesterol levels are quite high although my diet is completely low
Here are my levels

Total cholesterol : 259
Serum triglyceride: 226
Serum HDL: 34.1
Serum LDL: 180.2

Could any body tell me why my levels are so high

No body has come out with any kind of guidelines how the cholesterol levels get disturbed.
For example, some say Egg cholesterol is the culprit, but some say food cholesterol will not be converted to blood cholesterol. Whom to believe?

Triglycerides are lumps in blood.
You are getting into pre-diabetic stage (Assuming, you did not have heavy food or high carbs just three days before the blood test).

Try to improve the HDL first, rather than attacking the LDL. LDL is required for the smooth flow of the blood.

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coderguy wrote:

Guys please suggest good veg keto foods.

Cali flower family, almonds, sunflower seeds, pista, pumpkin seeds > good for protein
Coconut oil/ghee/olive oil > good for saturated fat
Leafy vegetables and Vegetables of all varieties except pulses and potato family.

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panchabhut wrote:

Incorrect.
HDL levels can be increased while reducing LDL levels.
And no one follows healthy lifestyle from birth. But once medical problems are detected, they must change their lifestyle, or face the consequences.

I have four years experience in improving HDL. LDL also get increased along with the HDL.

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raghupro wrote:

But the parameters that you posted suggest total cholesterol of 305 and LDL 227. Might not be possible to increase HDL without increase in LDL but these values are alarming, especially for elders.

No need to worry. That is due to taking saturated fat for last three months. It is normal in this diet. He just needs to reduce the fat consumption to 40gm fat/day.
The diet itself bring down the LDL in next couple of months.
In my case, it came down in three weeks after the diet with the help of dried ginger,turmeric,pepper etc.

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ramadesidime wrote:

I have four years experience in improving HDL. LDL also get increased along with the HDL.

which implies that you are not doing it correctly

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ramadesidime wrote:

Ways to reduce weight.

For people (BMI <25)who can follow strict diet irrespective of the cravings (example, no sugar eating, no high glycemic index foods eating like mango fruits etc):

Workouts in gym – do work outs couple of months – reduce couple of kgs
Diet – Healthy balanced food – do for couple of years – reduce couple of kgs

The weight comes down due to fact that calorie intake is less than calorie burning.

For people (BMI >21 & type 2 sugar patients) who can NOT follow strict diet rules for longer period (couple of weeks).

Keto/VRK type of diet(High protein, High fat, very less carb).
The weight comes down due to fact that calorie intake is less than calorie burning + fat burning due to Intermittent Fasting(IF).

Since there are no (or very less) carbs are added to the body, the sugar/glucose level is constant at minimum level, hence the brain triggers body fat burning.

The key point here is keeping the glucose level at minimum and constant, which can only happens when the body is not given glucose.
At the same time, energy is supplied by ketones (which come from food fat).

Any comments?

What if, I stop eating food for one week for reduction of fat and weight?

1)Body goes to auto control mode, and spend the calories very judiciously.
2)Since no intake of carbs, sugar level is low and constant, fat start burning. Your metabolism rate comes down due to above auto control mode.
3)Since there is no intake, after fat burning, muscles start loosing.
4)After one week is over, when you take food, the auto control mechanism quickly converts the calories to fat to use it later date, since the body doesn’t have any estimation that when you will feed food again. (This is due to the fact that ancient people were not sure about the next day food availability, cause they need to hunt for the food day to day)
5)This calorie to fat conversion will happen until the weight increased more than the initial weight.(Thats how many people suffer from weight increase after stopping the workouts.)
6)Skin sagging and wrinkles are seen on your face.

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Guys Keto diat is dangerous and not scientific.
Never try those. Consult a doctor.
They will determine medicine based on family history too.

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st303 wrote:

Tell me all the details you need and i am a vegetarian I don’t eat non veg at all

Since you mentioned veg, mostly refined oil and over heated oil is the culprit.
Non-veg is not bad, but the cooking may be bad. Non-veg is protein.

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Rag_NLR wrote:

Guys Keto diat is dangerous and not scientific.
Never try those. Consult a doctor.
They will determine medicine based on family history too.

I disagree with the statement. Keto is similar to any other form of diet and is very effective when combined with time restricted eating / intermittent fasting. The main thing is being consistent with the diet and not cheat on any day.
Secondly, gradually make the change for the body to get adjusted and simultaneously keep measuring the blood parameters.

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amdoinggood123 wrote:

I disagree with the statement. Keto is similar to any other form of diet and is very effective when combined with time restricted eating / intermittent fasting. The main thing is being consistent with the diet and not cheat on any day.
Secondly, gradually make the change for the body to get adjusted and simultaneously keep measuring the blood parameters.

No way Keto is a good one.
Always try to get information from trusted sources.

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