Confusion in IT section 80ddb and 80u

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Friends had a fruitful discussion with @Maverickz sirg on the topic of 80 ddb https://www.desidime.com/discussions/tax-saving... now there is another similar section 80 u
https://cleartax.in/s/get-certificate-claiming-...
https://cleartax.in/s/section-80u-ded...on
I have confusion b/w the two. Copy paste from other website

There is a marked difference between claim of deduction u/s 80 DDB and 80U of the Income tax tax. Deduction under both the sections are related to disabled individuals. Whereas section 80 DDB entitles a person to claim deduction under the section if he or any of his relative is suffering from the specified disability, deduction u/s 80U is applicable where the person himself is suffering from the specified disability. Section 80U presupposes that the person claiming deduction under the section is himself suffering from the disability. Further, section 80DDB entitles a person to claim deduction only if he has actually spent amount towards the medical treatment of himself or his relative, deduction u/s 80 U is available from the income of the person suffering from disability whether he has spent any amount towards medical treatment of himself or not. It is a concession given to the person because of his diluted capacity to earn because of disability.

Under the circumstances the father of a disabled son who is suffering from specified disability can claim deduction from his income u/s 80 DDB up to the specified amount if he has actually spent amount on the medical treatment of his son but he cannot claim any deduction u/s 80 U from his income on account of disability of his son. If the son suffering from the specified disability is having any income in his own name and has actually spent amount on his medical treatment, he can claim deduction under both the sections 80 DDB and 80U.

Is the above post correct?

Case husband senior citizen, wife in 50’s, son in 30’s.son suffered stroke and had ataxia. he had no health insurance. All of them file itr, though very less as per their income.

Doubts
- What is main difference between 80ddb and 80 u?
- should son claim 80ddb or 80u section?
- should he claim 80u as he himself spent money? Now can his parents or one of them claim 80 ddb as given in second paragraph above?
- form 10l is not required https://www.webtel.in/image/1...df but they are planning to get it signed. Is it mandatory to get is signed by the govt hospital head? Cleartax link says it is not and it also says that 10l is not required. are details about the case on private hospital letterhead and bill sufficient to claim exemption?
- what is rule 11dd?

@Sudarshan61
@Bk100

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You have already answered the first 3 questions based on the excerpts provided from the website. 80U is irrespective whether u spend money or not and it is to be claimed by the person suffering from the disability. 80DDB is to be claimed only when the amount is spent.
Form 10I is not required, but a certificate is required for the treatment done to claim u/s 80DDB.
Rule 11D lays down the rules related to the list of diseases for which 80ddb can be claimed and rules on how to get the certificate or format for the claim

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Maverickz wrote:

You have already answered the first 3 questions based on the excerpts provided from the website. 80U is irrespective whether u spend money or not and it is to be claimed by the person suffering from the disability. 80DDB is to be claimed only when the amount is spent.
Form 10I is not required, but a certificate is required for the treatment done to claim u/s 80DDB.
Rule 11D lays down the rules related to the list of diseases for which 80ddb can be claimed and rules on how to get the certificate or format for the claim

sirg confusion is in this line
80U is irrespective whether u spend money or not and it is to be claimed by the person suffering from the disability. 80DDB is to be claimed only when the amount is spent.
Now as there was no insurance so for hospitalization, scanning etc.amount was paid in cash. Should son show this under section 80u and one of the parents in section 80ddb?

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kukdookoo wrote:

sirg confusion is in this line
80U is irrespective whether u spend money or not and it is to be claimed by the person suffering from the disability. 80DDB is to be claimed only when the amount is spent.
Now as there was no insurance so for hospitalization, scanning etc.amount was paid in cash. Should son show this under section 80u and one of the parents in section 80ddb?

A resident individual who has been certified as a person with a disability by the medical authority can claim the tax benefit under Section 80U. For the purpose of this section, a person with a disability is defined as a person who has at least 40 percent disability, certified by the medical authorities.
For the purpose of this section, disability has been defined as one of the following:
Blindness, Low vision, Leprosy-cured, Hearing impairment, Loco motor disability, Mental retardation, Mental illness
The section also provides a definition for a severe disability which refers to a condition where the disability is 80 percent or more. Severe disability also includes multiple disabilities, autism and cerebral palsy. Please note that u don’t need to actually spend to claim the deduction under section 80U, whereas 80DDB requires actual spend to claim deduction

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Please give details of the exact case so that your doubts can be cleared.

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Maverickz wrote:

A resident individual who has been certified as a person with a disability by the medical authority can claim the tax benefit under Section 80U. For the purpose of this section, a person with a disability is defined as a person who has at least 40 percent disability, certified by the medical authorities.
For the purpose of this section, disability has been defined as one of the following:
Blindness, Low vision, Leprosy-cured, Hearing impairment, Loco motor disability, Mental retardation, Mental illness
The section also provides a definition for a severe disability which refers to a condition where the disability is 80 percent or more. Severe disability also includes multiple disabilities, autism and cerebral palsy. Please note that u don’t need to actually spend to claim the deduction under section 80U, whereas 80DDB requires actual spend to claim deduction

===

Please give details of the exact case so that your doubts can be cleared.

Case husband senior citizen, wife in 50’s, son in 30’s.son suffered brain stroke and had ataxia, loss of sensation etc. It was also found that son has Bicuspid aortic valve disease. he has no health insurance. All of them file itr, though very less as per their income.

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kukdookoo wrote:

Case husband senior citizen, wife in 50’s, son in 30’s.son suffered brain stroke and had ataxia, loss of sensation etc. It was also found that son has Bicuspid aortic valve disease. he has no health insurance. All of them file itr, though very less as per their income.

So here in your case, if the disability is listed under the list as prescribed under section 80U, only the son (and not the father / mother) can claim the benefit under section 80U in his IT return. There are no documentation requirements apart from a certificate from a recognized medical authority certifying the disability. There is no need to produce bills or other items incurred as cost of treatment or any other expenses.

Tax deductions U/S 80DDB can be claimed provided that the person concerned is residing within India for that tax year and the expenditure relating to medical treatment must be either for the individual himself or a family member such as a spouse, parent or sibling or child that is dependant on them. If all are filing ITR, then it means that the son is independent and hence the parents cannot claim 80DDB benefits.

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Maverickz wrote:

So here in your case, if the disability is listed under the list as prescribed under section 80U, only the son (and not the father / mother) can claim the benefit under section 80U in his IT return. There are no documentation requirements apart from a certificate from a recognized medical authority certifying the disability. There is no need to produce bills or other items incurred as cost of treatment or any other expenses.

Tax deductions U/S 80DDB can be claimed provided that the person concerned is residing within India for that tax year and the expenditure relating to medical treatment must be either for the individual himself or a family member such as a spouse, parent or sibling or child that is dependant on them. If all are filing ITR, then it means that the son is independent and hence the parents cannot claim 80DDB benefits.

Thanks. Under section 80 u the max exemption limit is 75000. As u said that bills are not required so if total expenditure was 50000 can a person still claim for 75000?
Ataxia is mentioned in section 80ddb and not in section 80 u for ur reference.

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kukdookoo wrote:

Thanks. Under section 80 u the max exemption limit is 75000. As u said that bills are not required so if total expenditure was 50000 can a person still claim for 75000?
Ataxia is mentioned in section 80ddb and not in section 80 u for ur reference.

If the disability (ataxia) is not listed under 80U, the person (son in your case) cannot claim any deduction u/s 80U.

For your query related to claiming full amount as deduction even though it was not incurred. The amount of deduction U/S 80U depends on the percentage of disability. The deduction claimed is fixed irrespective of the actual expenses. Therefore, even if the actual expenses are less than Rs 75,000 or Rs 1.25 lakh as applicable, you can still claim the full mentioned amount.

Also, if the expenses for ataxia (specified disease under 80DDB) are incurred by parents for the treatment of the son (who is not dependent on them as he files a separate ITR), they canot claim the deduction under 80DDB.

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Maverickz wrote:

If the disability (ataxia) is not listed under 80U, the person (son in your case) cannot claim any deduction u/s 80U.

Also, if the expenses for ataxia (specified disease under 80DDB) are incurred by parents for the treatment of the son (who is not dependent on them as he files a separate ITR), they canot claim the deduction under 80DDB.

But 80ddb in that copy paste excerpt and cleartax link does not say that if a person is filing separate itr he or his parents cannot claim the exemption sirg.

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kukdookoo wrote:

But 80ddb in that copy paste excerpt and cleartax link does not say that if a person is filing separate itr he or his parents cannot claim the exemption sirg.

The IT law for section 80DDB deduction is very clear that the person (son in your case) on whom the expenses are being incurred has to be dependent ( on the parents in your case). By filing his own ITR (assuming that he shows some income in it), the son proves that he has his own sources of income and is not dependent on any person. So the son can claim deduction u/s 80DDB if he has incurred the expenses on his own treatment.

I hope u get it now.

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Maverickz wrote:

The IT law for section 80DDB deduction is very clear that the person (son in your case) on whom the expenses are being incurred has to be dependent ( on the parents in your case). By filing his own ITR (assuming that he shows some income in it), the son proves that he has his own sources of income and is not dependent on any person. So the son can claim deduction u/s 80DDB if he has incurred the expenses on his own treatment.

I hope u get it now.

Confusion here
Italic part
Further, section 80DDB entitles a person to claim deduction only if he has actually spent amount towards the medical treatment of himself or his relative

If the son suffering from the specified disability is having any income in his own name and has actually spent amount on his medical treatment, he can claim deduction under both the sections 80 DDB and 80U.

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kukdookoo wrote:

Confusion here
Italic part
Further, section 80DDB entitles a person to claim deduction only if he has actually spent amount towards the medical treatment of himself or his relative

If the son suffering from the specified disability is having any income in his own name and has actually spent amount on his medical treatment, he can claim deduction under both the sections 80 DDB and 80U.

Yes. Subject to fulfillment of other conditions mentioned in each of these sections such as the disease should be specified in the sections, availability of certificate required for both the sections etc.

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Maverickz wrote:

Yes. Subject to fulfillment of other conditions mentioned in each of these sections such as the disease should be specified in the sections, availability of certificate required for both the sections etc.

Sirg mera swal tha, pehle yeh line read kare
Further, section 80DDB entitles a person to claim deduction only if he has actually spent amount towards the medical treatment of himself or his relative

2nd
If the son suffering from the specified disability is having any income in his own name and has actually spent amount on his medical treatment, he can claim deduction under both the sections 80 DDB and 80U.

As per both above lines in 80ddb too as per line, one can claim if he has spent on treatment of himself.
In second line it says he, son, can claim both 80ddb and 80u. Confused here.

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kukdookoo wrote:

Sirg mera swal tha, pehle yeh line read kare
Further, section 80DDB entitles a person to claim deduction only if he has actually spent amount towards the medical treatment of himself or his relative

2nd
If the son suffering from the specified disability is having any income in his own name and has actually spent amount on his medical treatment, he can claim deduction under both the sections 80 DDB and 80U.

As per both above lines in 80ddb too as per line, one can claim if he has spent on treatment of himself.
In second line it says he, son, can claim both 80ddb and 80u. Confused here.

That’s why I mentioned deduction can be claimed in both the section provided the other conditions are fulfilled… In your case, since the son is suffering from ataxia, which is listed under 80DDB, it can be claimed there, but since ataxia is not listed under 80U, it cannot be claimed there…

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Maverickz wrote:

That’s why I mentioned deduction can be claimed in both the section provided the other conditions are fulfilled… In your case, since the son is suffering from ataxia, which is listed under 80DDB, it can be claimed there, but since ataxia is not listed under 80U, it cannot be claimed there…

One more both sections seems to be following rule 11dd. In 11dd ataxia is mentioned but in cleartax 80 u page ataxia is not there. Can you please confirm

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kukdookoo wrote:

One more both sections seems to be following rule 11dd. In 11dd ataxia is mentioned but in cleartax 80 u page ataxia is not there. Can you please confirm

Rule 11DD is only applicable for section 80DDB and it specified the list of diseases for which deduction can claimed.

80U has its own definition for disability (and it does not include ataxia) –
© “disability” shall have the meaning assigned to it in clause (i) of section 2 of the Persons with Disabilities (Equal Opportunities, Protection of Rights and Full Participation) Act, 1995 and includes “autism”, “cerebral palsy” and “multiple disability” referred to in clauses (a), © and (h) of section 2 of the National Trust for Welfare of Persons with Autism, Cerebral Palsy, Mental Retardation and Multiple Disabilities Act, 1999;

Where do u see Rule 11DD in cleartax page? Here is the link:
https://cleartax.in/s/section-80u-ded...on

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Maverickz wrote:

Rule 11DD is only applicable for section 80DDB and it specified the list of diseases for which deduction can claimed.

80U has its own definition for disability (and it does not include ataxia) –
© “disability” shall have the meaning assigned to it in clause (i) of section 2 of the Persons with Disabilities (Equal Opportunities, Protection of Rights and Full Participation) Act, 1995 and includes “autism”, “cerebral palsy” and “multiple disability” referred to in clauses (a), © and (h) of section 2 of the National Trust for Welfare of Persons with Autism, Cerebral Palsy, Mental Retardation and Multiple Disabilities Act, 1999;

Where do u see Rule 11DD in cleartax page? Here is the link:
https://cleartax.in/s/section-80u-ded...on

Sorry it seems that I misread that 11DD is for both of them. It is very weird that these sections cover different neurological diseases. last question can the father of the son who suffered from ataxia and other neurological issues (These are not covered under 11DD) take claim under 80DDB as the son had no insurance so the cash to the hospital was paid by father when the son was hospitalized. Son files itr but nil or very less income tax. Same for senior citizen father.

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kukdookoo wrote:

Sorry it seems that I misread that 11DD is for both of them. It is very weird that these sections cover different neurological diseases. last question can the father of the son who suffered from ataxia and other neurological issues (These are not covered under 11DD) take claim under 80DDB as the son had no insurance so the cash to the hospital was paid by father when the son was hospitalized. Son files itr but nil or very less income tax. Same for senior citizen father.

If not covered in Rule 11D, then it cannot be claimed in section 80DDB

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Maverickz wrote:

If not covered in Rule 11D, then it cannot be claimed in section 80DDB

bro under rule 11DD for section 80 DBB ataxia is there. Please read query again
last question can the father of the son who suffered from ataxia and other neurological issues (These are not covered under 11DD) take claim under 80DDB as the son had no insurance so the cash to the hospital was paid by father when the son was hospitalized. Son files itr but nil or very less income tax. Same for senior citizen father.

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kukdookoo wrote:

bro under rule 11DD for section 80 DBB ataxia is there. Please read query again
last question can the father of the son who suffered from ataxia and other neurological issues (These are not covered under 11DD) take claim under 80DDB as the son had no insurance so the cash to the hospital was paid by father when the son was hospitalized. Son files itr but nil or very less income tax. Same for senior citizen father.

Bro… Already clarified that since the son is not dependent on his father by filing his own ITR and showing some income, this 80DDB deduction cannot be claimed by the father. So for the father to claim the deduction, he has to prove that the son is dependent on him.

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Maverickz wrote:

Bro… Already clarified that since the son is not dependent on his father by filing his own ITR and showing some income, this 80DDB deduction cannot be claimed by the father. So for the father to claim the deduction, he has to prove that the son is dependent on him.

the it rules are very weird and full of shit sirg

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kukdookoo wrote:

the it rules are very weird and full of shit sirg

It has been made such so that people do not try to misuse it.

Missing