How Fake Refund affect Sellers.

How Fake Refund affect Sellers.

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Jon snow eulogizing the dead after the great battle of winter
Deal Cadet
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Nowadays many people are looting Amazon Flipkart etc. by some fake refund trick. So how does it affect Sellers?

8 Comments  |  
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Deal Cadet
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what is fake refund tirck ?

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Deal Major
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It seems you wanna know this loot* trick more than knowing how sellers are getting affected by this smile

Jon snow eulogizing the dead after the great battle of winter
Deal Cadet
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getready wrote:

It seems you wanna know this loot* trick more than knowing how sellers are getting affected by this smile

No, I don’t want to know anything about trick. I know about it already. I just want to know that how sellers see it. They’re shipping original products. Do they get paid for what they shipped? Or they’re the one who’s getting looted.

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iamybs wrote:

No, I don’t want to know anything about trick. I know about it already. I just want to know that how sellers see it. They’re shipping original products. Do they get paid for what they shipped? Or they’re the one who’s getting looted.

i would think it depends from category to category (of listings, of sellers and of marketplace themselves😝)
once, someone directly associated with the sister concern of a small corporate seller at Snapdeal told us how ..for their issues SD has had a proper escalation matrix.
and if there was less than X percent of such claims or if they (vendor) had tight audit mechanisms or could prove they weren’t in the wrong or the returns received are different, severely damaged..
then Snapdeal did pay up (no idea if, like AmazonIN, they billed the loss to themselves)

old Ebay India’s arbitration process was cranky, but i’ve again read that sellers who understood it properly and were not fraudulent in specific cases, mostly got their money.
otherwise, Ebay kept it (even though they denied it to buyer too😝)

Flipkart is tougher with its listing, in general. as if they don’t even want third party sellers (besides WS Retail, Omnitech and such).
they even have image upload standards like resolution (LxB in pixels) and background to be whitespace of certain percentage range.
or so i was told by someone who wanted to sell bed linen and household articles.

small third party sellers of big sites often have 17-20% loss of revenues from frauds or marketplace policies.

Amazon, though it squeezes and coerces (and unilaterally changes the policies) the most, previously had good redressal mechanism.
again
all this is based only on what close acquaintances (sellers) told. no direct idea.
Amazon has too many layers. completely seller sold, sold by seller but that category/listing customer service is handled by Amazon (usually which have “EasyShip” forced on sellers. buyers see “delivered by Amazon”) and
then there is Amazon fulfilled, which in India practically means that they bought it from the seller.

sellers like RedLily (mostly childcare) Hyderabad or Vinod Home appliances (cookers, girdles/ tawa) who’ve facilities close to Bhiwandi even do not have to stock inventory at Amazon’s premises DESPITE fulfilled by Amazon.
them and few electronics sellers (LED lights, small items) or large appliances sellers still get FBA even if ATS picks up items from seller warehouse (often the said warehouse might be leased right next to main Amazon facilities).

these and other sellers who risk it with EasyShip or Amazon fulfillments almost always got their money back if it were a transit issue or buyer fraud.
(often when ATS or before ATS . FedEx, wouldn’t service a location, Amazon used India Post. back then they didn’t even investigate small cases and simply paid everyone.. India Post, buyer, seller)

i’m quite certain the Amazon system is rigged to give better score to sellers that (are forced to) buy advertising or have buy box score http://verticalrail.com/kb/amazon-b...ox
and the drone /Alexa/ bot might already supplement that information on-screen for the human agents to see/decide.

Amazon arbitration is cleaner than most marketplaces.
and after getting his posterior whooped badly in China by Jack Ma, Jeffrey Bezos can’t care less for operational losses till he could convert it into higher penetration.

ADCs in India existed since early 2000s, so they aren’t backing down.
incidentally, my local calls to AmazonIN support too, in early days during peak sales have been routed to Filipino or South Africa Amazon Development Centres (ADCs). it was weird for the agent and for me, to do even address verification!

I’ve had relatives (not to close) and close acquaintances often tell that how they manipulate Amazon just like buyers do.
they are sellers and do fraud if the item was returned on small pretext or if they don’t like the buyer.
they’d put minor defects or blur/add effects on item photographs and claim “item not in salable condition” and get refunded.
I presume, unlike buyer accounts, the threshold on sellers would be much higher for the automated system to flag seller accounts.
meaning, buyers do it, say 15-18% of total order values/business to date and might have a flag/alert of suspected abuse.
sellers might if backed with (even doctored) evidence might be able to do it 40-50% of the time.

I don’t know, I haven’t even sold a frisbee ever in my life.
not even used electronics or phones.
simply gave it off to others or minor haggling with the scrap shop. (only for an old TV and beat down washing machine).
.
but Amazon, since now it doesn’t even need seller approval of returns, often does refund them too.
they system still squeezes the sellers a lot, just go through stories of U.S. or even Indian sellers on sellercentral Ans elsewhere.
systematic listing hijacking by other (fake, unauthorised) sellers, sellers using dummy buyer accounts to damage others ratings are all tolerated by Amazon.
on yoytube there are even tutorials and advertising videos toungueout of some Chinese “expert” teaching people both things eek .. how to protect themselves as also conduct espionage/fraud on others listings!)
.
in U.S. where USPS (and even FedEx) policies allow for items to be left by the porch or premises door.. and porch thefts http://youtube.com/results?search_query=porch+t... are a small scale industry😝.. Amazon often straight away refunds the buyer and i think reimburses the sellers too.
might claim insurance if their logistics partners or general insurance have that covered.
.
like I said I’ve never traded anything in my life, except with kabadiwalkah (scrap shop) and do not have personal first person experience.
just some small Chandni Chiwk, Delhi type guy once showed me his Amazon account.
was sad at Amazon not letting him list his LED lights/bulbs and stuff as fulfilled, because they too know wink how bad ATS is and risk of damages, which Amazon will have to pay up to him).
poor guy lost out on possible good business ahead of festive season.
they (fraud) enrollment expert/Amazon associated empanelment guy too stopped helping.. once the seller targets were met and the agent helped each seller’s 5-6 items listed and 2-3 dummy orders created using friends, family account.
felt bad for the gut. honest young man, trying to grow Hus father’s small shop/business.. and his first experience with Amazon was THIS.
he told me he actually had higher hopes on Snapdeal as many in his market/circle sold in Snapdeal.
don’t know if he was more successful on SD or ditched Amazon.

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even some hv both buyer n sellr acc and loot each other for revenge or recovr loss

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Deal Lieutenant
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The funny thing is fraud sellers that offer higher discount, don’t provide CoD actually never sends the items.
But all of the fake things I and the ppl I know got are however are all from cloudtail only.
Fake adidas shoes returned but couldn’t return fake lakme cream, Himalaya face wash and shampoo.
Got refund 4 only the 1st 2 but didn’t get refund for the fake shampoo, that made my hair brown and dry!
So now stopped buying make up and hair products and just buy washing powder and dish washer/floor cleaners.

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adept wrote:

i would think it depends from category to category (of listings, of sellers and of marketplace themselves😝)
once, someone directly associated with the sister concern of a small corporate seller at Snapdeal told us how ..for their issues SD has had a proper escalation matrix.
and if there was less than X percent of such claims or if they (vendor) had tight audit mechanisms or could prove they weren’t in the wrong or the returns received are different, severely damaged..
then Snapdeal did pay up (no idea if, like AmazonIN, they billed the loss to themselves)

old Ebay India’s arbitration process was cranky, but i’ve again read that sellers who understood it properly and were not fraudulent in specific cases, mostly got their money.
otherwise, Ebay kept it (even though they denied it to buyer too😝)

Flipkart is tougher with its listing, in general. as if they don’t even want third party sellers (besides WS Retail, Omnitech and such).
they even have image upload standards like resolution (LxB in pixels) and background to be whitespace of certain percentage range.
or so i was told by someone who wanted to sell bed linen and household articles.

small third party sellers of big sites often have 17-20% loss of revenues from frauds or marketplace policies.

Amazon, though it squeezes and coerces (and unilaterally changes the policies) the most, previously had good redressal mechanism.
again
all this is based only on what close acquaintances (sellers) told. no direct idea.
Amazon has too many layers. completely seller sold, sold by seller but that category/listing customer service is handled by Amazon (usually which have “EasyShip” forced on sellers. buyers see “delivered by Amazon”) and
then there is Amazon fulfilled, which in India practically means that they bought it from the seller.

sellers like RedLily (mostly childcare) Hyderabad or Vinod Home appliances (cookers, girdles/ tawa) who’ve facilities close to Bhiwandi even do not have to stock inventory at Amazon’s premises DESPITE fulfilled by Amazon.
them and few electronics sellers (LED lights, small items) or large appliances sellers still get FBA even if ATS picks up items from seller warehouse (often the said warehouse might be leased right next to main Amazon facilities).

these and other sellers who risk it with EasyShip or Amazon fulfillments almost always got their money back if it were a transit issue or buyer fraud.
(often when ATS or before ATS . FedEx, wouldn’t service a location, Amazon used India Post. back then they didn’t even investigate small cases and simply paid everyone.. India Post, buyer, seller)

i’m quite certain the Amazon system is rigged to give better score to sellers that (are forced to) buy advertising or have buy box score http://verticalrail.com/kb/amazon-b...ox
and the drone /Alexa/ bot might already supplement that information on-screen for the human agents to see/decide.

Amazon arbitration is cleaner than most marketplaces.
and after getting his posterior whooped badly in China by Jack Ma, Jeffrey Bezos can’t care less for operational losses till he could convert it into higher penetration.

ADCs in India existed since early 2000s, so they aren’t backing down.
incidentally, my local calls to AmazonIN support too, in early days during peak sales have been routed to Filipino or South Africa Amazon Development Centres (ADCs). it was weird for the agent and for me, to do even address verification!

I’ve had relatives (not to close) and close acquaintances often tell that how they manipulate Amazon just like buyers do.
they are sellers and do fraud if the item was returned on small pretext or if they don’t like the buyer.
they’d put minor defects or blur/add effects on item photographs and claim “item not in salable condition” and get refunded.
I presume, unlike buyer accounts, the threshold on sellers would be much higher for the automated system to flag seller accounts.
meaning, buyers do it, say 15-18% of total order values/business to date and might have a flag/alert of suspected abuse.
sellers might if backed with (even doctored) evidence might be able to do it 40-50% of the time.

I don’t know, I haven’t even sold a frisbee ever in my life.
not even used electronics or phones.
simply gave it off to others or minor haggling with the scrap shop. (only for an old TV and beat down washing machine).
.
but Amazon, since now it doesn’t even need seller approval of returns, often does refund them too.
they system still squeezes the sellers a lot, just go through stories of U.S. or even Indian sellers on sellercentral Ans elsewhere.
systematic listing hijacking by other (fake, unauthorised) sellers, sellers using dummy buyer accounts to damage others ratings are all tolerated by Amazon.
on yoytube there are even tutorials and advertising videos toungueout of some Chinese “expert” teaching people both things eek .. how to protect themselves as also conduct espionage/fraud on others listings!)
.
in U.S. where USPS (and even FedEx) policies allow for items to be left by the porch or premises door.. and porch thefts http://youtube.com/results?search_query=porch+t... are a small scale industry😝.. Amazon often straight away refunds the buyer and i think reimburses the sellers too.
might claim insurance if their logistics partners or general insurance have that covered.
.
like I said I’ve never traded anything in my life, except with kabadiwalkah (scrap shop) and do not have personal first person experience.
just some small Chandni Chiwk, Delhi type guy once showed me his Amazon account.
was sad at Amazon not letting him list his LED lights/bulbs and stuff as fulfilled, because they too know wink how bad ATS is and risk of damages, which Amazon will have to pay up to him).
poor guy lost out on possible good business ahead of festive season.
they (fraud) enrollment expert/Amazon associated empanelment guy too stopped helping.. once the seller targets were met and the agent helped each seller’s 5-6 items listed and 2-3 dummy orders created using friends, family account.
felt bad for the gut. honest young man, trying to grow Hus father’s small shop/business.. and his first experience with Amazon was THIS.
he told me he actually had higher hopes on Snapdeal as many in his market/circle sold in Snapdeal.
don’t know if he was more successful on SD or ditched Amazon.

spock?

Missing