Request

@Magus wrote:

“Why is there, one must ask, this division—the Russian, the American, the British, the French, the German, and so on—why is there this division between man and man, between race and race, culture against culture, one series of ideologies against another? Why? Where is there this separation? Man has divided the earth as yours and mine—why? Is it that we try to find security, self-protection, in a particular group, or in a particular belief, faith? For religions also have divided man, put man against man—the Hindus, the Muslims, the Christians, the Jews and so on. Nationalism, with its unfortunate patriotism, is really a glorified form, an ennobled form, of tribalism. In a small tribe or in a very large tribe there is a sense of being together, having the same language, the same superstitions, the same kind of political, religious system. And one feels safe, protected, happy, comforted. And for that safety, comfort, we are willing to kill others who have the same kind of desire to be safe, to feel protected, to belong to something.”

J Krishnamurti

I too agree on some of the above.

I consider myself as a world citizen first. Indian next.

@DealSeeker wrote:

@Plato wrote:

@DealSeeker wrote:

@mahidada wrote:

And no need to change DP to show u love India…

#SocialMediaFads

And what is wrong in this Fad 😀?

The thing which is wrong with every fad — short-lived enthusiasm for a thing before something flashier takes the fore

Well said.

Oops multiple posts

@raven_kira wrote:

Well, It doesn’t hurt to change our DP and show pride in being an Indian citizen. But using words like “Lets see how many actually love the country” hurts-more-than-helps by alienating the silent patriots among us. Not every one of us likes to change DPs, pin flags to our chest, wake up early to attend flag hoistings and watch parades. On the contrary, we are more proud that we live in a free country that doesn’t force us to do all the above.

There’s so much more we can do than just sing anthems before movie screenings and say Bharat Mata ki Jai at some narrow-minded nationalists’ behest. Don’t get me wrong…all the above methods work wonders esp when the country is at war with a foreign country. But we, as the citizenry, have so much to do to right our homeland at this moment. Speak against brain drain when you get the opportunity…refuse the next time some corrupt public servant asks for a bribe…speak against and end the caste system that’s being handed over generations as a heirloom…stop putting foreigners and “white” skin on a pedestal and start treating people for who they actually are. India has an abysmal tax-GDP ratio compared to other countries…paying your taxes is more helpful to the country than patriotic sloganeering.

Changing your DPs and resorting to jingoism is still better than nothing, but lets not forget that we are responsible Indian citizens for the other 363 days as well.

Agreed.

But what is there to take “pride” in having been born in a place? I don’t think it’s necessary to make it that way. Are Pakistan and China threats to our well-being? Yes. But that should be handled in a mature way rather than regressing to jingoism. We should strengthen the relationships based on things we have in common with them rather than strengthening our own identity against the others. I don’t say we should forget our roots but we should become more cosmopolitan in our views when going out to meet the world.

@MayankG101 wrote:

@mr.lonely wrote:

Op has requested the dimers and not ordered everyone, so thank u for that. I will also do it.

LETS SEE HOW MANY OF YOU LOVE

This criteria is not good. Bcoz ppl who dont change then bcome less patriotic/anti national/gaddaar.

We all shud try to become one and not create divisions. And not distribute certificates of patriotism.

After pakistan and china incidents you have not learnt any thing

Sorry didn’t get u. What do u want me to learn?
I m very sorry but i use a xiaomi phone and i think i hv also used pakistani onion imported by the govt.

that is so true.
i ended up antagonising the OP (and may be others)
when i was amongst the first to question the merit in ‘proving’ love, patriotism or rather
restricting these emotions, qualities to tokenisms.

later i tried to get deeper into their thought processes
asked if they could share just five or six other things that can be better representative of ones actions as a patriot.
what else (besides changing avtaar pics, posting selfies, saying ‘Bharat Mata ki Jai’) can one do
what have they done or suggest we do to ‘prove’ our love for or patriotism for ones Motherland

@Magus wrote:

or is it not ?
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-on-wife-s-60th-birthday-mumbai-man-sponsors-601-cataract-operations-1906851

@Magus wrote: …We should strengthen the relationships based on things we have in common with them rather than strengthening our own identity against the others.…

beg you to let go of the typographical and other lapse. understand Ms. Bhavna

Bhavnao ko samjhiye (of this [QUOTE]brother[UNQUOTE])

@mr.lonely wrote: …I m very sorry but i use a xiaomi phone and i think i hv also used pakistani onion imported by the govt…

people like you, @Magus @raven_kira @enapster [this → relevant] should be charged with sedition and put to the gallows
or better still, dropped off in Yulin dressed as a Great Dane during the festival.

if someone isn’t wearing their patriotism on their sleeves
or is questioning anything
and/or is a non conformist.. then such a person is an anti-national FULL-STOP

@Spock wrote:

@mr.lonely wrote: I m very sorry but i use a xiaomi phone and i think i hv also used pakistani onion imported by the govt.

people like you, @Magus @raven_kira @enapster [this → relevant] should be charged with sedition and put to the gallows
or better still, dropped off in Yulin dressed as a Great Dane during the festival.

many here are

@enapster wrote: suffering from ostrich syndrome?

also,i went to the extent of changing my profile bio aand taking repeated rap on my knukles to keep that (they deleted my posts) memory of yours alive.
[i was being sarcastic bhai.. you need to revisit our old chats ]

@Spock wrote:

many here are

@enapster wrote: suffering from ostrich syndrome?

sorry, you missed the editted one above.

also,i went to the extent of changing my profile bio aand taking repeated rap on my knukles to keep that (they deleted my posts) memory of yours alive.
[i was being sarcastic bhai.. you need to revisit our old chats ]

I thought all this DP change to show patriotism and wearing tricolor scarf (or handkerchief or shirt or *) to show patriotism was limited to kindergarten and primary school. It’s a great feeling to be back in primary school!

@enapster wrote: I thought all this DP change to show patriotism and wearing tricolor scarf (or handkerchief or shirt or underwear) to show patriotism was limited to kindergarten and primary school. It’s a great feeling to be back in primary school!

ummm… i’d like to back you up… but for this one thing..

http://www.google.com/search?q=american+flag+sw...

not that we are any less than ooas ऊ एस
lekin apna desh iss hi liye unnees vi sadi (19th century) mei atka hua hai

http://www.google.com/search?q=american+flag+un...

but dot dot dot

yes, on serious note. such discussions have so much to offer, so it can not always be in black and white when it comes to what is acceptable, what isn’t.
what is matured, what is child-like.

@Magus wrote:

Agreed.

But what is there to take “pride” in having been born in a place? I don’t think it’s necessary to make it that way. Are Pakistan and China threats to our well-being? Yes. But that should be handled in a mature way rather than regressing to jingoism. We should strengthen the relationships based on things we have in common with them rather than strengthening our own identity against the others. I don’t say we should forget our roots but we should become more cosmopolitan in our views when going out to meet the world.

When anyone talks about being “proud of my country”…it actually means(atleast IMO) that he is happy that he’s lucky enough to be born in a country that creates the environment for him to realise his goals and ambitions, without excessively infringing upon his rights as a human being and a citizen. We take this for granted because we haven’t experienced anything to the contrary…thanks to the independence struggle.. during which the ideals upon which a country and a govt. should be built were formed. I believe that, Just as a person born in a country ruled by an oppressive govt. has every right to feel angst …we have as much reason to feel proud of our country where our forefathers fought incessantly and selflessly against foreign rule ensuring a liberated future for us….and thus feel a need to further their cause by doing something in return..something to make this place a better one for the future generation.

When going out to meet the world, we have no choice but to be accepting of others’ culture…but in the process, forgetting the very homeland that provided one with opportunities to go and meet the outside world is kinda ungrateful. In an ideal world with no discrimination and a single benevolent government ruling the whole world…its practical to say “the world is my home”.But in the present fragile situation where discrimination exists in all spheres…every human being has a subconscious yearning to stay and feel safe at his own place of birth.

@raven_kira wrote:

@Magus wrote:

Agreed.

But what is there to take “pride” in having been born in a place? I don’t think it’s necessary to make it that way. Are Pakistan and China threats to our well-being? Yes. But that should be handled in a mature way rather than regressing to jingoism. We should strengthen the relationships based on things we have in common with them rather than strengthening our own identity against the others. I don’t say we should forget our roots but we should become more cosmopolitan in our views when going out to meet the world.

When anyone talks about being “proud of my country”…it actually means(atleast IMO) that he is happy that he’s lucky enough to be born in a country that creates the environment for him to realise his goals and ambitions, without excessively infringing upon his rights as a human being and a citizen. We take this for granted because we haven’t experienced anything to the contrary…thanks to the independence struggle.. during which the ideals upon which a country and a govt. should be built were formed. I believe that, Just as a person born in a country ruled by an oppressive govt. has every right to feel angst …we have as much reason to feel proud of our country where our forefathers fought incessantly and selflessly against foreign rule ensuring a liberated future for us….and thus feel a need to further their cause by doing something in return..something to make this place a better one for the future generation.

When going out to meet the world, we have no choice but to be accepting of others’ culture…but in the process, forgetting the very homeland that provided one with opportunities to go and meet the outside world is kinda ungrateful. In an ideal world with no discrimination and a single benevolent government ruling the whole world…its practical to say “the world is my home”.But in the present fragile situation where discrimination exists in all spheres…every human being has a subconscious yearning to stay and feel safe at his own place of birth.

I have the yearning to stay and feel safe in my birth place. However, I’ve been to several countries and I’ve felt safer in most of those countries than in India. The yearning is still a yearning – will never become real.

@enapster wrote:

I have the yearning to stay and feel safe in my birth place. However, I’ve been to several countries and I’ve felt safer in most of those countries than in India. The yearning is still a yearning – will never become real.

@raven_kira wrote:

@enapster wrote:

I have the yearning to stay and feel safe in my birth place. However, I’ve been to several countries and I’ve felt safer in most of those countries than in India. The yearning is still a yearning – will never become real.

Indians under the British rule had a yearning for self-governance…and if they all had thought it’d never become real…it’d actually have never become real.

There is a difference, under British rule they had to fight (violence and non-violence) to achieve self-governance.If I have to fight for feeling safe, that’s not something I want to do!

I think by self-governance, you meant independence. What is this independence you are talking about when people can’t even eat what they want to?

@enapster wrote:

There is a difference, under British rule they had to fight (violence and non-violence) to achieve self-governance.If I have to fight for feeling safe, that’s not something I want to do!

I think by self-governance, you meant independence. What is this independence you are talking about when people can’t even eat what they want to?

Ehm…If I have to fight for feeling safe, that’s not something I want to do! What’s the whole point in yearning if you don’t wish to act upon it…and you don’t think pre-Independence people had to fight to feel safe?

Independence means not being dependent on a foreign entity. The ones who made the beef ban you are referring to are people we have elected to power…and if everyone who differs with the elected govt are supposed to move away to other countries…then about half the world will be in a constant state of migration.

@raven_kira wrote:

Indians under the British rule had a yearning for self-governance…and if they all had thought it’d never become real…it actually would’ve never become real.

Things were different before independence. We had a common enemy – the British Raj. It gave us impetus to get together. Our present situation clearly shows that it was pseudo-unity. Once the grip was loosened, our hidden agenda came to the fore. Should we always have a common enemy in the name of Pakistan or China to keep ourselves together by force?

@DealLooter0015 wrote:

thank you

@raven_kira wrote:

@enapster wrote:

There is a difference, under British rule they had to fight (violence and non-violence) to achieve self-governance.If I have to fight for feeling safe, that’s not something I want to do!

I think by self-governance, you meant independence. What is this independence you are talking about when people can’t even eat what they want to?

Ehm…If I have to fight for feeling safe, that’s not something I want to do! What’s the whole point in yearning if you don’t wish to act upon it…and you don’t think pre-Independence people had to fight to feel safe?

Independence means not being dependent on a foreign entity. The ones who made the beef ban you are referring to are people we have elected to power…and if everyone who differs with the elected govt are supposed to move away to other countries…then about half the world will be in a constant state of migration.

we did not elect anyone to power. It is a flaw in “Democracy” that a party with 31% vote share forms the government. The remaining 69% are helpless! Is there a solution? I can’t think of any.

As I said, I have traveled and lived in many countries (all developed nations except Mexico) and my opinion is that the biggest problem in India is the high population density. Every time I come back to India after gap of 2-3 weeks, I feel “Where do all these people come from”. High population leads to poverty and unemployment. You can’t preach about integrity to someone who is hungry and homeless.

@MayankG101 wrote: thank you

no thank YOU bhai for posting this request which you subsequently toned down.

it has now developed into a good thoughts-exchanger of sorts with many interesting perspectives coming to the fore.

Voted and apologies for hurting your sentiments in the chats.
now i noticed that you have taken down the qualifier: IF you love India, then you’ll do x, y or z.

Another aspect I detest about India is racism. Read this, I am of the same opinion too…

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-racist-c...

@Magus wrote:

@raven_kira wrote:

Indians under the British rule had a yearning for self-governance…and if they all had thought it’d never become real…it actually would’ve never become real.

Things were different before independence. We had a common enemy – the British Raj. It gave us impetus to get together. Our present situation clearly shows that it was pseudo-unity. Once the grip was loosened, our hidden agenda came to the fore. Should we always have a common enemy in the name of Pakistan or China to keep ourselves together by force?

My point in the statement was if you have a yearning….you have to act to make it a reality.

I don’t think it was pseudo-unity. There’ll always be differences in opinions within any country…and India with its tremendous diversity and a tolerant secular attitude had all the more reasons to have internal squabbles. Even the most optimistic scholars placed their bets on India’s democracy ending up as a catastrophic failure in the 1950s and 60s….But we pulled through, didnt we?…and ended up becoming a country that is a force to be reckoned with. All of us are unified by the fact that we were born in the same country and share a common identity, language, culture…..and that is what binds us together….that is what makes us bunch up together as ‘Indian community’ while abroad. I don’t understand how Pakistan and China come into the picture…Yes, we share a common view on what these countries mean to us but we are much more than that….we all share a bond deeper than just fearing/hating a foe.

@MayankG101 wrote:

@DealLooter0015 wrote:

thank you

@enapster wrote:

we did not elect anyone to power. It is a flaw in “Democracy” that a party with 31% vote share forms the government. The remaining 69% are helpless! Is there a solution? I can’t think of any.

As I said, I have traveled and lived in many countries (all developed nations except Mexico) and my opinion is that the biggest problem in India is the high population density. Every time I come back to India after gap of 2-3 weeks, I feel “Where do all these people come from”. High population leads to poverty and unemployment. You can’t preach about integrity to someone who is hungry and homeless.

So true! I often wonder why there are no more government campaigns about the importance of birth control in recent years. I hear people talk about the situation where there will be a decline in the number of young people compared to the number of old people because of rigorous birth control. Well, at least we can start afresh then. The present situation is just suffocating us all to death.

@raven_kira wrote:

@Magus wrote:

@raven_kira wrote:

Indians under the British rule had a yearning for self-governance…and if they all had thought it’d never become real…it actually would’ve never become real.

Things were different before independence. We had a common enemy – the British Raj. It gave us impetus to get together. Our present situation clearly shows that it was pseudo-unity. Once the grip was loosened, our hidden agenda came to the fore. Should we always have a common enemy in the name of Pakistan or China to keep ourselves together by force?

My point in the statement was if you have a yearning….you have to act to make it a reality.

I don’t think it was pseudo-unity. There’ll always be differences in opinions within any country…and India with its tremendous diversity and a tolerant secular attitude had all the more reasons to have internal squabbles. Even the most optimistic scholars placed their bets on India’s democracy ending up as a catastrophic failure in the 1950s and 60s….But we pulled through, didnt we?…and ended up becoming a country that is a force to be reckoned with. All of us are unified by the fact that we were born in the same country and share a common identity, language, culture…..and that is what binds us together….that is what makes us bunch up together as ‘Indian community’ while abroad. I don’t understand how Pakistan and China come into the picture…Yes, we share a common view on what these countries mean to us but we are much more than that….we all share a bond deeper than just fearing/hating a foe.

@raven_kira wrote:

My point in the statement was if you have a yearning….you have to act to make it a reality.

I don’t think it was pseudo-unity. There’ll always be differences in opinions within any country…and India with its tremendous diversity and a tolerant secular attitude had all the more reasons to have internal squabbles. Even the most optimistic scholars placed their bets on India’s democracy ending up as a catastrophic failure in the 1950s and 60s….But we pulled through, didnt we?…and ended up becoming a country that is a force to be reckoned with. All of us are unified by the fact that we were born in the same country and share a common identity, language, culture…..and that is what binds us together….that is what makes us bunch up together as ‘Indian community’ while abroad. I don’t understand how Pakistan and China come into the picture…Yes, we share a common view on what these countries mean to us but we are much more than that….we all share a bond deeper than just fearing/hating a foe.

Even after all these years of independence it is only a particular section of the society which is enjoying the fruits of freedom while the majority here is still struggling even to survive let alone live a life of dignity. It’s clearly an outcome of the evil of vested interests holding power, not just difference of opinions.

@enapster wrote:

we did not elect anyone to power. It is a flaw in “Democracy” that a party with 31% vote share forms the government. The remaining 69% are helpless! Is there a solution? I can’t think of any.

As I said, I have traveled and lived in many countries (all developed nations except Mexico) and my opinion is that the biggest problem in India is the high population density. Every time I come back to India after gap of 2-3 weeks, I feel “Where do all these people come from”. High population leads to poverty and unemployment. You can’t preach about integrity to someone who is hungry and homeless.

Thats due to the “First past the post” system…Britain follows the same system and it has similar numbers and percentages to show for in its elections. The other system is “proportional representation”…but the drawback being it leads to the formation of unstable governments and difficulty for the illiterate to understand it. Our constitution makers at that time rightfully chose the former to allow for stable govt.s to keep the already fractious nation unified. There are a few vocal parliamentarians who vouch for “proportional representation” repeatedly.

High population is not a bad thing entirely. High population is a consequence of a demographic dividend and its something every country would kill to have again. Almost every country goes through this phase and its upto the country to maximise it to transform itself into a major economic power…just like what China did in the 70s-80s. And India is in the middle of it at the moment….and its upto each one of us to effect a change in whichever way possible… instead of just complaining why things wont get any better in the country.

@enapster wrote:

Suppose there are two roads that lead to your destination, one has potholes and high traffic, the other is a freeway – which one would you choose? For some, the journey thru the potholes and traffic is the destination.

In this case the destination would’ve been completely different for the nation had it chosen the easy path. Would it have been better? Would it have been worse? Nobody knows…its like that Robert Frost’s poem and we chose “The Road not taken” and that has made all the difference.